Advantages of Big XII.

I just don't get why so many people are ready to dive headlong into the bigxii. I'd love to hear what people think will be so much better if BYU gets into that conference?



I will say this, TV rights, after Sunday play, is the single most important item at risk as far as I'm concerned. If you don't think TV rights are an issue, please state where you are living because I think that will explain why you aren't concerned about it. In 2007 I moved from Utah, where I didn't get why everyone hated the mtn. deal so much, to Houston. Suddenly every weekend revolved around where I was going to watch the game. I couldn't get more than 2-3 games nationally and had to get the right TV package to even get those games. Then versus had issues and it was just a pain in the neck to get games.



Independence was like dying and going to heaven. I've been in Philadelphia the last 2 years and watched a good number of the games on justin.tv, atdhe.net, etc etc. Being able to watch MOST of the games on ESPN/national TV this year has been so great that I don't know what I would do if I only got to see 5-6 games. It would be awful.



And here's the bottom line for me. If BYU is 5-0 right now, which was not impossible, no one is complaining about the independence deal and we're focusing on this years team. the same will happen if BYU joins the big xii and is losing. No one will be happy because BYU will be mediocre and we as fans won't even be watching as many games, and let's face it, BYU will never get as much TV time as OU or UT if we going the bigxii unless concessions are given to BYUtv, which I think is where the hang up is right now. If that is the issue (the tv rights) I'm totally fine with staying indy and paving our own way.



So again, what are the real advantages that the BIG xii provide that BYU not only wants, but NEEDS.

The silence is deafening...

declocoug wrote:
I just don't get why so many people are ready to dive headlong into the bigxii. I'd love to hear what people think will be so much better if BYU gets into that conference?



I will say this, TV rights, after Sunday play, is the single most important item at risk as far as I'm concerned. If you don't think TV rights are an issue, please state where you are living because I think that will explain why you aren't concerned about it. In 2007 I moved from Utah, where I didn't get why everyone hated the mtn. deal so much, to Houston. Suddenly every weekend revolved around where I was going to watch the game. I couldn't get more than 2-3 games nationally and had to get the right TV package to even get those games. Then versus had issues and it was just a pain in the neck to get games.



Independence was like dying and going to heaven. I've been in Philadelphia the last 2 years and watched a good number of the games on justin.tv, atdhe.net, etc etc. Being able to watch MOST of the games on ESPN/national TV this year has been so great that I don't know what I would do if I only got to see 5-6 games. It would be awful.



And here's the bottom line for me. If BYU is 5-0 right now, which was not impossible, no one is complaining about the independence deal and we're focusing on this years team. the same will happen if BYU joins the big xii and is losing. No one will be happy because BYU will be mediocre and we as fans won't even be watching as many games, and let's face it, BYU will never get as much TV time as OU or UT if we going the bigxii unless concessions are given to BYUtv, which I think is where the hang up is right now. If that is the issue (the tv rights) I'm totally fine with staying indy and paving our own way.



So again, what are the real advantages that the BIG xii provide that BYU not only wants, but NEEDS.

Agree. I'm loving being able to watch all the games. We just need to win them all and things will take care of themselves. We can't give in on the Sunday play, and we can't give in on the rights to BYU TV because this is all about exposure. Doing otherwise would be selling out that larger purpose.



I would love to go to the BIG XII if they will agree to those issues. If not, I'm fine where we are. It beats the heck out of the MWC.



BIG XII with no Sunday play and rights to BYU-TV> Independence >>>>MWC



Independence>Big XII w/ Sunday play or w/out rights to BYU TV>>>>MWC

Success in the Big XIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Success as an independent

SpiffCoug wrote:
Success in the Big XIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Success as an independent

Yep.



Also,



Worst Big 12 BBall team >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone not named Gonzaga or St. Mary's.

Bowl games.

Undefeated football team as an independant= MAYBE getting into a BCS bowl game. Undefeated and Big 12 champ = NC game.



Money; Big12 >>>>>>> independant (I know BYU says that it is not about the money but in the long run it always is).



Recruiting; Big12>>>>>>>>>>Independant. We do a pretty good job recruiting but BCS schools average a higher star rating then non BCS teams. our recruiting will improve.



Big12 basketball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC

Olympic sports Big12>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC (or wherever else they are).



So, other then getting to play on ESPN every week (by the way, whatever isn't picked up by ESPN or fox BYUtv will be able to broadcast, just like we have today), there is no comparison in what is better.

If you're saying we would loose a lot of games in the Big 12 and be mediocre as apposed to being 5-0 as an independent, then you are really saying we are a mediocre independent that will get exposed anytime it plays a decent BCS team and just tries to get buy feeding on non-BCS scheduling and BCS bottom-feeders. Maybe that's what you want but I'd rather play with the big boys and build up until we are competitive for BCS Bowls/NC

KYCoug wrote:
If you're saying we would loose a lot of games in the Big 12 and be mediocre as apposed to being 5-0 as an independent, then you are really saying we are a mediocre independent that will get exposed anytime it plays a decent BCS team and just tries to get buy feeding on non-BCS scheduling and BCS bottom-feeders. Maybe that's what you want but I'd rather play with the big boys and build up until we are competitive for BCS Bowls/NC

KY - everyone would agree except look how many Big 12 teams have never built up and they do not have the recruiting restrictions we have re honor code. But scheduling is a big issue as an independent becasue to ever get to play a decent team, we keep giving 2 for 1 or 1 and done or (un)neutral site. Big 12 would solve that and OOC we should be happy to eat cakes. To be relevant in football in or out of a BCS conference you have to win. So you have to schedule to win. I guess when you start winning every year and rarely losing a game - aka BSU and TCU recently - maybe then you start worrying about scheduling up a little bit - not too much - you might have an off year - just a little off like TCU 2011 - and wish you played NM State instead of Baylor.



Jump on ESPN and try to find an article about any unranked team other than the conference realignment rumors. They just are not in the discussoin unless they have a heisman candidate or something. To be ranked - you have to win.

I will say this--if BYU were 5-0 right now, I'd be more disappointed about not getting in to the Big 12 than I am now.



If BYU were playing a home schedule against Texas, K-State, Ok State, Iowa State, and TCU, I'd consider flying out to some home games. Despite how close the games have been and are likely to be, I have very little desire to fly out to see UCF, USU, SJSU, ISU, Idaho, and NM State.



Then there's the bowl game. The Holiday Bowl is for the #5/6 team in the Big 12--I'd love for BYU to go to the Holiday Bowl. I'd love for BYU to go to any bowl that pays out more than $2 million, rather than the $750K games against non-BCS foess we have lined up for the next few years.

Cougarbib2 wrote:

If you're saying we would loose a lot of games in the Big 12 and be mediocre as apposed to being 5-0 as an independent, then you are really saying we are a mediocre independent that will get exposed anytime it plays a decent BCS team and just tries to get buy feeding on non-BCS scheduling and BCS bottom-feeders. Maybe that's what you want but I'd rather play with the big boys and build up until we are competitive for BCS Bowls/NC

KY - everyone would agree except look how many Big 12 teams have never built up and they do not have the recruiting restrictions we have re honor code. But scheduling is a big issue as an independent becasue to ever get to play a decent team, we keep giving 2 for 1 or 1 and done or (un)neutral site. Big 12 would solve that and OOC we should be happy to eat cakes. To be relevant in football in or out of a BCS conference you have to win. So you have to schedule to win. I guess when you start winning every year and rarely losing a game - aka BSU and TCU recently - maybe then you start worrying about scheduling up a little bit - not too much - you might have an off year - just a little off like TCU 2011 - and wish you played NM State instead of Baylor.



Jump on ESPN and try to find an article about any unranked team other than the conference realignment rumors. They just are not in the discussoin unless they have a heisman candidate or something. To be ranked - you have to win.

I would rather Play and lose to Texas and OU then Play and pummel Idaho state and New mexico state.



BYU currently is not a good enough team to win the big 12 but with proper recruiting and coaching, I think we could compete well in the big 12. Like I have stated before, if you go undefeated in the WAC, MWC, or Independant, you MAY get a chance at a BCS bowl game. If you win a big 12 championship, you get a shot at the NC game. there is no comparison.

I am in the Big 12 camp - but be careful what you wish for. Last year's team or this year's team with Big 12 schedule and this non sense of playing ND, BSU, and Utah OOC would be lucky to win 2 or 3 games. That is what BYU did before 1970 and BYU football was a joke.



And if you really believe that Lavell had consistent success against BCS teams, you have watched to many BYU VS Miami re-runs.



Look up BYU VS UCLA, Ohio State just for two examples. Add Florida State and Georgia.



Yes we caught Okie and Texas in down years - so did Bronco.



In the Heyday of Heydays - other than 6-5 Michigan - who did we beat in 1984. Don't mention Pitt who gad a losing record that tear.



From the very day Ty Detmer won the Heisman, he went 0-5 in his next five starts.



That is the reality. 1985 - Bosco a senior - BYU ranked 7 - loses to winless UTEP iirc, and at least two others - UCLA and maybe OSU iirc. Anyway - go list our BCS wins and losses back in the day. Less than 50%. Check the Holiday Bowl.



BYU list track of what made them successful - BSU and others, meanwhile, cloned it.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

At 3-2 with a Big 12 schedule, you'd still have a conference championship and BCS birth to play for. Heck, LSU won a national championship with 2 losses and there are years that a 2 loss Big 12 championship could get in. At 3-2 as an independent, we play for nothing more than respect.



Having motivation makes teams play better. In the Big 12 we'd have more opportunity, and more exposure because many of our games would mean more.



You've got to be kidding me that being on ESPN every week against bad teams trumps all of that. It's not like no BYU games would be on TV. Games are more and more accessible every year online and through TV packages anyway. I'd rather listen to big meaningful games on the radio than watch meaningless ones on TV. I'll gladly pay $300 a year that I can't afford for a college football TV package if we get accepted to the Big 12. Where do I sign up?

Raiderboy wrote:
At 3-2 with a Big 12 schedule, you'd still have a conference championship and BCS birth to play for. Heck, LSU won a national championship with 2 losses and there are years that a 2 loss Big 12 championship could get in. At 3-2 as an independent, we play for nothing more than respect.



Having motivation makes teams play better. In the Big 12 we'd have more opportunity, and more exposure because many of our games would mean more.



You've got to be kidding me that being on ESPN every week against bad teams trumps all of that. It's not like no BYU games would be on TV. Games are more and more accessible every year online and through TV packages anyway. I'd rather listen to big meaningful games on the radio than watch meaningless ones on TV. I'll gladly pay $300 a year that I can't afford for a college football TV package if we get accepted to the Big 12. Where do I sign up?

You really think that BYU is playing for more than peanuts at the end of the year if BYU goes 3-2 to start and still had to play a big 12 schedule? Sorry, the guys might be motivated, but this years team might not play at all in a bowl.

You state that BYU'd have more exposure because many of our games would mean more. I think this is being overblown. BYU did great in their first year of scheduling with short notice. give it 3-4 years and I'm sure BYU will balance out the schedule as teams will realize that a trip to Provo means they can improve their own exposure because most likely the game will be on ESPN. And I never said that NO BYU games would be on TV, but the more the better. How many Iowa State games have been on TV nationally lately?



Also I'm not afraid of the BIG xii schedule. I agree that it would force BYU to float or sink and more than likely BYU would rise to the top... eventually. I am afraid of all the restrictions that could be placed on tv rights which is basically why BYU left the mwc.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Success in the Big XIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Success as an independent

Really? How so? If BYU goes undefeated, along with Oregon/USC (sans sanctions) and Bama/Florida who is going to the NC? My guess- not BYU.

Schmoe wrote:
Bowl games.

BYU just needs to win and this will correct itself, when contracts end with bowls, BYU will be added in when the next contract is written. Bowls will want BYU and the LV bowl will miss having a steady diet of BYU.

frdbtr,

Undefeated football team as an independant= MAYBE getting into a BCS bowl game. Undefeated and Big 12 champ = NC game.

Huge MAYBE with the bowl system of today.

Money; Big12 >>>>>>> independant (I know BYU says that it is not about the money but in the long run it always is).

I'd say that's true for every school besides BYU where they follow rules, know how to live within their means and don't pay athletes.

Recruiting; Big12>>>>>>>>>>Independant. We do a pretty good job recruiting but BCS schools average a higher star rating then non BCS teams. our recruiting will improve.

Can't agree on this. If BYU is winning consistently as an Indy, recruiting will be just fine. Why didn't recruiting take a significant hit this last year? And I think the star system stinks and the 2010 recruiting class has proven that.

Big12 basketball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC

I'll give you this one

Olympic sports Big12>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC (or wherever else they are).

You'll have to prove this one to me, WCC is great at a lot of sports including track and field, volleyball, baseball, women's soccer. They just don't have the same following or sexy names that the big xii schools do, and I think that BYU being in the conference will change that.

So, other then getting to play on ESPN every week (by the way, whatever isn't picked up by ESPN or fox BYUtv will be able to broadcast, just like we have today), there is no comparison in what is better.

Another huge assumption that BYUtv will simply "pick" up the game if others don't want it. Why didn't BYUtv do that during BYU's mtn visit?

declocoug wrote:

Undefeated football team as an independant= MAYBE getting into a BCS bowl game. Undefeated and Big 12 champ = MAYBENC game.



Money; Big12 >>>>>>> independant (I know BYU says that it is not about the money but in the long run it always is The root of all evil in sports).



Recruiting; Big12>>>>>>>>>>Independant. We do a pretty good job recruiting but BCS schools average a higher star rating then non BCS teams. our recruiting will improve. Can't agree on this. If BYU is winning consistently as an Indy, recruiting will be just fine. Why didn't recruiting take a significant hit this last year? And I think the star system stinks and the 2010 recruiting class has proven that.



Big12 basketball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC I'll give you this one

Olympic sports Big12>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC (or wherever else they are).

You'll have to prove this one to me, WCC is great at a lot of sports including track and field, volleyball, baseball, women's soccer.

[/size]



So, other then getting to play on ESPN every week (by the way, whatever isn't picked up by ESPN or fox BYUtv will be able to broadcast Huge assumption. You'd have thought the same thing about mtn. and BYUtv but for some reason comcast/mtn./MWC whoever didn't allow it., just like we have today), there is no comparison in what is better. Thanks again Al Gore ;)

I'm glad you went to the trouble because I didn't feel like it. Without the TV concessions, joining the Big XII could be a bad deal. National exposure doesn't mean people might be able to find you on a regional FSN network. It means they flip to ESPN and there you are. Like I said, I have already had several people talk to me about BYU football here in Alabama because they were the only game on TV that night.



Also, be careful what you wish for in upping the competition before you are ready. The team that whipped us badly this year is having a rough go of it in a conference many would consider inferior to the Big XII. I'd be willing to take the risk if we could agree on the TV rights and no-Sunday play--but it wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows as the :utard: are finding out.

frdbtr wrote:



BYU currently is not a good enough team to win the big 12 but with proper recruiting and coaching, I think we could compete well in the big 12. Like I have stated before, if you go undefeated in the WAC, MWC, or Independant, you MAY get a chance at a BCS bowl game. If you win a big 12 championship, you get a shot at the NC game. there is no comparison.

Well couldn't ANYONE compete well in the big xii with proper coaching and recruiting? So why haven't other teams made a run at texas or OU?

Cougarfan87 wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
Undefeated football team as an independant= MAYBE getting into a BCS bowl game. Undefeated and Big 12 champ = MAYBENC game.



Money; Big12 >>>>>>> independant (I know BYU says that it is not about the money but in the long run it always is The root of all evil in sports).



Recruiting; Big12>>>>>>>>>>Independant. We do a pretty good job recruiting but BCS schools average a higher star rating then non BCS teams. our recruiting will improve. Can't agree on this. If BYU is winning consistently as an Indy, recruiting will be just fine. Why didn't recruiting take a significant hit this last year? And I think the star system stinks and the 2010 recruiting class has proven that.



Big12 basketball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC I'll give you this one

Olympic sports Big12>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WCC (or wherever else they are).

You'll have to prove this one to me, WCC is great at a lot of sports including track and field, volleyball, baseball, women's soccer.

[/size]



So, other then getting to play on ESPN every week (by the way, whatever isn't picked up by ESPN or fox BYUtv will be able to broadcast Huge assumption. You'd have thought the same thing about mtn. and BYUtv but for some reason comcast/mtn./MWC whoever didn't allow it., just like we have today), there is no comparison in what is better. Thanks again Al Gore ;)

I'm glad you went to the trouble because I didn't feel like it. Without the TV concessions, joining the Big XII could be a bad deal. National exposure doesn't mean people might be able to find you on a regional FSN network. It means they flip to ESPN and there you are. Like I said, I have already had several people talk to me about BYU football here in Alabama because they were the only game on TV that night.



Also, be careful what you wish for in upping the competition before you are ready. The team that whipped us badly this year is having a rough go of it in a conference many would consider inferior to the Big XII. I'd be willing to take the risk if we could agree on the TV rights and no-Sunday play--but it wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows as the :utard: are finding out.

HA, I edited that post after I saw how hideous it turned out. I don't think I'm changing anyone's mind about the issue so I'm going to stop arguing. Basically I think that if BYU gives it some time INDY could be a very doable and successful gig that allows BYU to do basically whatever they want. Because they are BYU, they can make it work. Most of these arguments I'm hearing would be more appropriate for schools not named BYU. Those schools who don't have a huge following, world class TV station, most unique recruiting angle in the lower 48, etc etc etc.



I'm all for going big xii, but I don't want another mtn (non-exposure) issue. I didn't even know all the teams that were in the big xii before the conference re-alignment stuff started happening. I just didn't care or hadn't heard about them. BYU's deal right now puts them on the map every year. Whether or not ESPN picks up all their games is irrelevant because they already have TV. Remember that is something that Texas would not give up to go pac-12, BYU might want to keep that in the back of their minds when negotiating.



Ok. I'm done. I appreciate the other views, most are at least somewhat valid and I'm sure BYU is concerned about some of them. I just don't think they are persuasive enough to make it necessary for BYU to jump before we look. No situation is going to be perfect, big xii or indy included.