Archived Topic

BYU and the Big XII--What now?

by Y12 · 10/7/2011

Y12

10/7/2011, 3:32:35 PM

It looks like Big XII is ready to play hard ball with BYU. Should BYU come down from its demands, if so which ones?

http://www.bluecougarfootball.com/2011/10/byu-and-big-xii-what-now.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lawboy

10/7/2011, 3:40:18 PM

Missouri to SEC, means another slot is about to open in that league. Perhaps not until 2013, though, which might actually suit BYU. Of course, Mizzou is dead weight, so perhaps the league lets them go early if BYU can be added for 2012. It really is up to BYU and always has been.

snoscythe

10/7/2011, 3:40:18 PM

Giving on Sunday play is a non-starter. Might as well scrap the Honor Code while you're at it.

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Guest

10/7/2011, 3:55:11 PM

I wish I knew what demands BYU is making. The only thing we've heard are some faint rumors that BYU isn't budging on things that relate to 'Church rules' and that is holding up the process. I assume that means more than Sunday play, because if it does mean Sunday play than the Big12 is too idiotic to live to think that that was even a possible negotiating point before going in.

Gunk

10/7/2011, 4:13:23 PM

I don't know why any conference would even think of approaching BYU without knowing we wouldn't budge on our standards. We don't do it for something as big as a bowl game or the NCAA tourney, why do it elsewhere. And if the Big 12 is essentially trying to buy our standards do we really want any part of them. This is BYU likes the WCC.

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Cougarfan87

10/7/2011, 4:18:18 PM

hawkwing wrote:
I wish I knew what demands BYU is making. The only thing we've heard are some faint rumors that BYU isn't budging on things that relate to 'Church rules' and that is holding up the process. I assume that means more than Sunday play, because if it does mean Sunday play than the Big12 is too idiotic to live to think that that was even a possible negotiating point before going in.

It may not be the Sunday play rule at all. It could be related to financial disclosures and things of that sort that the Church keeps very private. Perhaps the Big XII wants to be able to look at BYU's books and BYU won't allow that. Just a thought, and probably wrong, but I can't imagine them trying to bully us into agreeing to play on Sunday for sports that aren't revenue sports anyway. Football is driving these deals, and Sunday play isn't an issue in football. So, I can't see why the Big XII would make it an issue for other sports that obviously aren't part of this equation.

The other issue may be that BYU wants to stay with the WCC and come in as football only for a few years. I could see the church taking a stance on that issue as well, which might be regarded as a "church rule." Again, the Big XII shouldn't care if our other sports don't come for another three years or so since it is football driving this train.

No sources, all speculation, but I don't think it is linked to Sunday play.

Guest

10/7/2011, 4:26:08 PM

Cougarfan87 wrote:
I wish I knew what demands BYU is making. The only thing we've heard are some faint rumors that BYU isn't budging on things that relate to 'Church rules' and that is holding up the process. I assume that means more than Sunday play, because if it does mean Sunday play than the Big12 is too idiotic to live to think that that was even a possible negotiating point before going in.

It may not be the Sunday play rule at all. It could be related to financial disclosures and things of that sort that the Church keeps very private. Perhaps the Big XII wants to be able to look at BYU's books and BYU won't allow that. Just a thought, and probably wrong, but I can't imagine them trying to bully us into agreeing to play on Sunday for sports that aren't revenue sports anyway. Football is driving these deals, and Sunday play isn't an issue in football. So, I can't see why the Big XII would make it an issue for other sports that obviously aren't part of this equation.

The other issue may be that BYU wants to stay with the WCC and come in as football only for a few years. I could see the church taking a stance on that issue as well, which might be regarded as a "church rule." Again, the Big XII shouldn't care if our other sports don't come for another three years or so since it is football driving this train.

No sources, all speculation, but I don't think it is linked to Sunday play.

Right now (or this morning) KFan has been reporting that one of the major problems still in the way is in fact Sunday play for Olympic sports. Apparently the TV partners aren't willing to budge on moving to non-Sunday events, and BYU isn't willing to budge on not participating. At least if these rumors are true.

Cougarfan87

10/7/2011, 4:27:41 PM

hawkwing wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
I wish I knew what demands BYU is making. The only thing we've heard are some faint rumors that BYU isn't budging on things that relate to 'Church rules' and that is holding up the process. I assume that means more than Sunday play, because if it does mean Sunday play than the Big12 is too idiotic to live to think that that was even a possible negotiating point before going in.

It may not be the Sunday play rule at all. It could be related to financial disclosures and things of that sort that the Church keeps very private. Perhaps the Big XII wants to be able to look at BYU's books and BYU won't allow that. Just a thought, and probably wrong, but I can't imagine them trying to bully us into agreeing to play on Sunday for sports that aren't revenue sports anyway. Football is driving these deals, and Sunday play isn't an issue in football. So, I can't see why the Big XII would make it an issue for other sports that obviously aren't part of this equation.

The other issue may be that BYU wants to stay with the WCC and come in as football only for a few years. I could see the church taking a stance on that issue as well, which might be regarded as a "church rule." Again, the Big XII shouldn't care if our other sports don't come for another three years or so since it is football driving this train.

No sources, all speculation, but I don't think it is linked to Sunday play.

Right now (or this morning) KFan has been reporting that one of the major problems still in the way is in fact Sunday play for Olympic sports. Apparently the TV partners aren't willing to budge on moving to non-Sunday events, and BYU isn't willing to budge on not participating. At least if these rumors are true.

So much for trying to use logic to figure these things out. :blush:

CougarClaw

10/7/2011, 4:41:27 PM

So Sunday play is clearly a no-budge issue. What else would the church NEVER do?

open up financial records

disclose coaching salaries?

rebrand byutv as LHN

promise not to advertise or proseltize within Big 12 footprint

accept money with strings attached?

accept and propagate Big 12 sponsors on campus (i.e. Budweiser)

Lawboy

10/7/2011, 4:54:07 PM

I have heard the media rights is still a main sticking point. In particular, the 72-hour wait period for rebroadcast rights. Fox supposedly does not want to waive it, but ESPN will play ball with BYU. BYU want ability to rebroadcast the night of the game, or at least by Monday night.

Who knows, though. As long as Sunday play is not the issue, the rest is a want. Sunday play is the only real need.

NorCal

10/7/2011, 5:42:24 PM

Sunday play should be our only demand. I honestly could care less about BYUtv (aka the quilting channel) and the rebroadcast. Who cares whether it is the same night as the game or 1 week later. If Fox and ESPN are going to pay us 20 million a year I think we should be a little flexible. If I hear that Louisville gets the nod over us, I am going to become a Jehohav's Witness. I've heard they have an up and coming sports program.

profgeek

10/7/2011, 5:42:46 PM

hawkwing wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
I wish I knew what demands BYU is making. The only thing we've heard are some faint rumors that BYU isn't budging on things that relate to 'Church rules' and that is holding up the process. I assume that means more than Sunday play, because if it does mean Sunday play than the Big12 is too idiotic to live to think that that was even a possible negotiating point before going in.

It may not be the Sunday play rule at all. It could be related to financial disclosures and things of that sort that the Church keeps very private. Perhaps the Big XII wants to be able to look at BYU's books and BYU won't allow that. Just a thought, and probably wrong, but I can't imagine them trying to bully us into agreeing to play on Sunday for sports that aren't revenue sports anyway. Football is driving these deals, and Sunday play isn't an issue in football. So, I can't see why the Big XII would make it an issue for other sports that obviously aren't part of this equation.

The other issue may be that BYU wants to stay with the WCC and come in as football only for a few years. I could see the church taking a stance on that issue as well, which might be regarded as a "church rule." Again, the Big XII shouldn't care if our other sports don't come for another three years or so since it is football driving this train.

No sources, all speculation, but I don't think it is linked to Sunday play.

Right now (or this morning) KFan has been reporting that one of the major problems still in the way is in fact Sunday play for Olympic sports. Apparently the TV partners aren't willing to budge on moving to non-Sunday events, and BYU isn't willing to budge on not participating. At least if these rumors are true.

I don't think Sunday play on a philosophical level would be an issue. But remember that those running things in the B12 are presidents. Presidents have one top priority: Money. Money drives everything. If the no-Sunday-play issue spills out of the philosophical and into the coffers (TV contracts, particularly in basketball, come to mind), then it could be a key sticking point. I read yesterday in a Kansas City newspaper that the B12 presidents still had "issues" with bringing in BYU, but nobody seemed to know what those issues were.

snoscythe

10/7/2011, 5:50:36 PM

Andy Katz:

"Everything I have been told is that BYU wants to remain [independent] and in the [West Coast Conference]."

Dave Sittler:

"While BYU was thought to be ahead of TCU on the list of potential candidates, the Cougars' chances have reportedly dropped the past few days.

"There is some rigidity at BYU in terms of what they will and won't do," said a source of the school, which doesn't play games on Sunday. "Some of it has to do with church rules, and also the way they engage with media partners."

While BYU remains a possibility, sources said Louisville would likely be next in line either if Mizzou leaves or the conference expands back to 12 members.

"If Missouri stays, the Big 12 might pause at 10 for a year or so," a source said. "It wouldn't be disastrous to go with nine teams for a year.

"But 10 is preferable, and Louisville is probably the hottest prospect right now."

jonnylingo

10/7/2011, 6:27:01 PM

snoscythe wrote:
Andy Katz:
"Everything I have been told is that BYU wants to remain [independent] and in the [West Coast Conference]."

Dave Sittler:
"While BYU was thought to be ahead of TCU on the list of potential candidates, the Cougars' chances have reportedly dropped the past few days.

"There is some rigidity at BYU in terms of what they will and won't do," said a source of the school, which doesn't play games on Sunday. "Some of it has to do with church rules, and also the way they engage with media partners."

While BYU remains a possibility, sources said Louisville would likely be next in line either if Mizzou leaves or the conference expands back to 12 members.

"If Missouri stays, the Big 12 might pause at 10 for a year or so," a source said. "It wouldn't be disastrous to go with nine teams for a year.

"But 10 is preferable, and Louisville is probably the hottest prospect right now."

These mean just as little as the 'inside sources' and tweets going around. these people have pieces of the truth or pieces of information that one party negotiating wants to get out there. You have to take it all in and then try and form an opinion on what is going on.

only those negotiating really know what is going on here.

snoscythe

10/7/2011, 6:32:23 PM

jonnylingo wrote:
Andy Katz:
"Everything I have been told is that BYU wants to remain [independent] and in the [West Coast Conference]."

Dave Sittler:
"While BYU was thought to be ahead of TCU on the list of potential candidates, the Cougars' chances have reportedly dropped the past few days.

"There is some rigidity at BYU in terms of what they will and won't do," said a source of the school, which doesn't play games on Sunday. "Some of it has to do with church rules, and also the way they engage with media partners."

While BYU remains a possibility, sources said Louisville would likely be next in line either if Mizzou leaves or the conference expands back to 12 members.

"If Missouri stays, the Big 12 might pause at 10 for a year or so," a source said. "It wouldn't be disastrous to go with nine teams for a year.

"But 10 is preferable, and Louisville is probably the hottest prospect right now."

These mean just as little as the 'inside sources' and tweets going around. these people have pieces of the truth or pieces of information that one party negotiating wants to get out there. You have to take it all in and then try and form an opinion on what is going on.

only those negotiating really know what is going on here.

EXACTLY. I just offered these snippets to show the other side of the rumors out there--these seem to directly contradict the rumors that BYU "insiders" are pumping into the fora.

Mars

10/7/2011, 6:35:31 PM

NorCal wrote:
Sunday play should be our only demand. I honestly could care less about BYUtv

Exactly.

Lawboy

10/7/2011, 6:38:38 PM

I am trying to think of BYU issues they would want before joining. Here is my list, some rumored. Add to it as you like:

No Sunday Play

Football game on Friday Night pre-conference weekend(or a bye).

Tier 3 rights for BYUtv when game not picked up by ESPN/Fox.

Rebroadcast rights for games on BYUtv night of game, or following Monday.

Requesting that Fox regional not carry many games. ESPN or Fox national networks only. Go national or pass. Nationwide fan base to please.

ESPN TV buy out at no cost?? (rumored)

12 teams in Big XII. BYU in Big XII North.

Add 1 more western footprint team to help with travel and to help anchor BYU.

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