Negotiations with Utah breaking down. Blame Utah/PAC

Look for the series to end after 2012, or at least become an occasional game. Utah is not serious about wanting the series to continue as a home and home. I think the PAC would also prefer to see this go away for Utah's sake so they can build a Utah-Colorado game up, which will never take off with a BYU-Utah series in place.



Apparently, Utah has increased demands from 2 for 1's to 4 for 2's with BYU--at the request of the PAC. Many believe this was done knowing BYU would not accept it, so Utah could get out the annual game. It is honestly quite pathetic that Utah would allow the PAC to exert pressure on them to do this, to walk away from such an important local, tradition rivalry, and to turn their backs on BYU in this way.



BYU has already made moves to counteract this by addding BSU long term.

Many of us believe the :utard: sold their souls to the devil when they accepted the PAC 12 invite.

vancouvercougar wrote:
Many of us believe the :utard: sold their souls to the devil when they accepted the PAC 12 invite.

Ah, but you cannot sell that which is not yours. They mortgaged their souls a long, long time ago.



The are past the point of feeling.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Many of us believe the :utard: sold their souls to the devil when they accepted the PAC 12 invite.

Ah, but you cannot sell that which is not yours. They mortgaged their souls a long, long time ago.



The are past the point of feeling.

I was assuming they had souls to begin with.

Why would anyone want to sell something that they don't even possess (a soul) to themselves (the devil) anyhow?

So, this is kind of out of left field, but here's some random thoughts regarding this issue.



* Does Utah really think we'll cave to this?

* If not, they must be thinking they don't lose much if the rivalry is discontinued.

* If that is the case, they are mistaken, because even with Pac-12 schools on the schedule, nothing is going to outdraw BYU. Their entire athletic program is built around trying to beat BYU. If that's gone, they will become the most irrelevant team in their league.

* The big loser here would be the state of Utah. It's the biggest sporting event in the state, and as such probably generates a lot of revenue for the state, especially when played at the University of Utah, a state school.

* How proactive would the state of Utah be in trying to keep the game? Keep in mind the role of state governments in determining things like Big XII membership (Ann Richards was a Baylor alum...) and Ohio State OOC schedules (do we actually think they want to be playing Akron, Youngstown State, etc?). Is there a way they could step in with a mandate that would keep the game? Anything from they are required to play it as the final regular season game to they are required to attempt to schedule the game on 1-for-1 basis every year? If possible, would they do it?

redneckjedi is right, the biggest losers here are the University of Utah and the state of Utah. A lot of positive economic and charitable things happen because of this game.



Maybe the legislature should pass a bill requiring Utah to play BYU every year? Of course then BYU could dictate the terms and require 2 for 1s in our favor! muahah!

Utah is spineless and stupid. just wait when they start winning 5 and 6 games a year or less. their fans will stop coming and they will wish that they were still playing byu. this is a mistake on their part which I couldn't care less about. They have always needed byu and at the least being tied to byu has always been very helpful for them. being in the pac12 does not fill that void. I think it is a mistake on their part but I really don't care much either way.

I have to believe that the PAC is putting pressure on Utah to do this. The PAC knows that BYU would never go for a 2-1 or 4-2 in a million years. I think it is pretty clear that the PAC is trying to force a Utah-Colorado rivalry and BYU is standing in the way of that happening.



Is this the first time in history that a team has requested a 2-1 from a school that has a larger stadium/higher average attendance then they do? No way Utah is that stupid by themselves.

CannonCougar85 wrote:
I have to believe that the PAC is putting pressure on Utah to do this. The PAC knows that BYU would never go for a 2-1 or 4-2 in a million years. I think it is pretty clear that the PAC is trying to force a Utah-Colorado rivalry and BYU is standing in the way of that happening.



Is this the first time in history that a team has requested a 2-1 from a school that has a larger stadium/higher average attendance then they do? No way Utah is that stupid by themselves.

So, how about a counter offer: we get you into the Big XII with us, receiving a full revenue share on day one, we play 1-1, and you give us the difference between what you are now getting and between what you would have gotten in the Pac 12 from your partial share?

Utah's acting like they have leverage over us as an independent as if we need help filling out our schedule. Guess what, we have plenty of teams willing to play us in September which is what the Pac is requiring Utah to do. We need to give them a Notre Dame counter offer. Utah can come play us in Provo on a one and done. Maybe we will think about playing them in another 10 years after that.

If Utah was serious about the rivalry they would push to replace Utah State as the Conference Weekend game. It would give the game a date each year, you know if will be on ESPN each year, and it makes the game part of something bigger and out of state alums will come for the game and conference. Team it up with a week of charitable fund raising and would probably bring the rivalry into a brighter spot light.



But that would also be admitting that the LDS faith has any influence over the University of Utah and that would get them in hot water with the Pac 12, and it would also prevent Utah-Colorado from becoming a the Utes' biggest rivalry.



But the Pac 12 needs to acknowledge that the U's success is closely tied to how it is perceived by members. The U cannot afford to be perceived as the heathen school in Utah and having USU and BYU playing the Friday before conference while the Utes play during Priesthood Session isn't going to help that.

This is the Pac wanting to pump Utah up and Utah trying to make themselves look bigger than they are. I don't really blame Utah as they've been under BYU's shadow for decades. I'm sure they're hoping to move out from under it.



BYU must have been considering the 2 and 1, which I could see us accepting to keep the rivalry alive. So to put it out of reach, looks like the Pac/Utah upped it.



There are plenty of teams chomping at the bit to be "rivals" with BYU - Utah State, BSU, TCU, etc. Who's clamoring to be "rivals" with Utah? Nobody.

I heard that at the Cougar Club luncheon before the BYU-Utah game Tom Holmoe spoke and before he sat down he said "And I'll let Chris Hill tell you about the future of the rivalry." Chris Hill then never addressed that topic when he spoke.



Holmoe taking a shot at Chris Hill, I like it.

redneckjedi wrote:

* Does Utah really think we'll cave to this?

1) no. They don't. But there's a .0005% chance we might, so it's worth their while to ask cause they really would prefer to drop us.

redneckjedi wrote:
* If not, they must be thinking they don't lose much if the rivalry is discontinued.

2) they don't think they'll lose much. They're already on to bigger and better. They can fill their stadium with USC, UCLA and Oregon fans. And they have a smaller stadium to fill as well as get a lot more TV money (Eventually). BYU also represents a REALLY hard game even if they do beat us easier than we seem to beat them. Why not schedule cupcakes instead? Also the Plaque-12 hates us, Utah fits right in. It's not hard to see why BYU doesn't fit as well in the new model.

redneckjedi wrote:
* If that is the case, they are mistaken, because even with Pac-12 schools on the schedule, nothing is going to outdraw BYU. Their entire athletic program is built around trying to beat BYU. If that's gone, they will become the most irrelevant team in their league.

3) The fact that Utah was built on beating BYU does not mean that's even remotely close to their focus now. They really feel they've moved on to bigger and better and that does not (much to our own chagrin and despite our previous Gentleman's agreement) include BYU. And although Utah will be rebuilding this year, if they can keep up their string of victories in the Pac-12, they'll be right.

redneckjedi wrote:
* The big loser here would be the state of Utah. It's the biggest sporting event in the state, and as such probably generates a lot of revenue for the state, especially when played at the University of Utah, a state school.

4) Yes the state of Utah is a huge loser, as are all the fans who used to attend rivalry games. This is probably the biggest casualty in conference realignment and only a hint of what conference armagedon might look like if the country went to super conferences.

redneckjedi wrote:
* How proactive would the state of Utah be in trying to keep the game?

5) I don't see the state getting involved in this at all. They're too busy buying Plaque-12 gear to smear all over their bodies.



Conclusion?: Rivalry OVER. Toodles FRutes

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Many of us believe the :utard: sold their souls to the devil when they accepted the PAC 12 invite.

Ah, but you cannot sell that which is not yours. They mortgaged their souls a long, long time ago.



The are past the point of feeling.

Maybe it's more like a horcrux in that Utah split its soul into several pieces, and have been selling them off, one by one. Several parts to get into the PAC-12, and a piece every year to play out of their minds vs. BYU etc...

Thinking about the :utard: and CU as rivals makes me laugh. Assuming ANYONE would consider this a rivalry game at any point within the next 2 decades...can you think of a less relevant "rivalry"? Or a less exciting rivalry? Both of those teams could go into that game 3-8 this year (fingers crossed).



The :utard: and the Pac killing one of the greatest rivalries in college fball is just one more reason to hate the :utard: and the pac.



And if the BYU/OSU game isn't on TV, then that will be one MORE reason to hate them all.

Gentlement and Hawkwing, when it comes to the :utard: and their brains, ethics, morality, and a sense of honor, this cat springs to my mind:



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Isola wrote:
If Utah was serious about the rivalry they would push to replace Utah State as the Conference Weekend game.

The Church and BYU would never do this because they wouldn't want that much hatred going into conference weekend.

redneckjedi wrote:
...and Ohio State OOC schedules (do we actually think they want to be playing Akron, Youngstown State, etc?).

I guess you guys will never get it around here and understand that Akron U, Youngstown St, Ohio U, Kent State, Miami and Bowling Green have wanted the chance to play Ohio State forever, but never had the chance. I'm actually a graduate of Akron U. I know for the most part they are just seen as OSU playing a patsy and that is not totally lost, but those schools are estatic to have that opportunity that they could have only ever dreamed of. It is the exact same thing as Weaver St and S. Utah in relation to BYU. They don't give a rat's butt if they will be favored to lose by a bundle. It's something they have only dreamed of and finally those games have actually happened for those Ohio teams and now for WSU.



On the issue of Utah. I would be shocked if this is really what has happened that Utah has made such a request. I'm almost at that point that I'd have to see it to believe it. It sounds like a smoke screen to me because Utah would know absolutely that BYU would and COULD NOT EVER accept such an approach. I don't think Utah is that hen pecked that they would cave in to such a request by the PAC12 because the full brunt of being afraid of playing BYU would fall directly into Utah's lap. If Geogia Tech can still play Georgia; Clemson -- South Carolina; and Florida --Miami/Florida St; then Utah would come across as chicken liver if those SEC schools can still play their chief rivals. I'm just not buying all of this story line.