Riley's been a divisive force--the players choose Riley

I'm standing by my theory from last year. There has been a divisive force if not mutinous, on this team.

McGregor tweeted as much minutes ago. I get that he has much more reputability than me, but seriously, I have been saying this since last year. Do i need to resurrect the "MUTINY" thread?

Jake performance has not been able to overcome his lack of leadership NOR the team's divisiveness.

Even the announcer noticed that receivers were not making the same catches that they did for Nelson.



I still think he is the guy to start--by performance and mostly, that the TEAM HAS SPOKEN. The leaders have spoken. They want Riley. They have always wanted Riley. Again, not absolving jake of blame, but when you know your guys dont support you it wares on you. AND nobody on O did a stinking thing about this. MReynolds and BK should have, bc for certain, JJ and Mckay who are in league with Riley, and Hoffman who was BFF and roommate with Riley, wasnt going to either.

Go ahead and refute my claims But dont forget that the Omniscient McGregor is also now "reporting this".

dmcougar wrote:
I'm standing by my theory from last year. There has been a divisive force if not mutinous, on this team.

McGregor tweeted as much minutes ago. I get that he has much more reputability than me, but seriously, I have been saying this since last year. Do i need to resurrect the "MUTINY" thread?

Jake performance has not been able to overcome his lack of leadership NOR the team's divisiveness.

Even the announcer noticed that receivers were not making the same catches that they did for Nelson.



I still think he is the guy to start--by performance and mostly, that the TEAM HAS SPOKEN. The leaders have spoken. They want Riley. They have always wanted Riley. Again, not absolving jake of blame, but when you know your guys dont support you it wares on you. AND nobody on O did a stinking thing about this. MReynolds and BK should have, bc for certain, JJ and Mckay who are in league with Riley, and Hoffman who was BFF and roommate with Riley, wasnt going to either.

Go ahead and refute my claims But dont forget that the Omniscient McGregor is also now "reporting this".

I didn't read this thread last year...but if this is the case, Nelson is the problem...not the solution. This cultural stuff can plague a team for years.

McGregor says that he has heard this, it may be true, it may not. I certainly hope not, because no matter who is involved I don't want this kind of silly drama in my locker room.



Secondly, I don't think anyone can look at the first 4 games and say that they think the team was trying to sabotage Jake Heaps. They certainly all put it on the line against Ole Miss. Same with Texas. Everyone played hard against Utah until the absolutely terrible start to the 3rd quarter when the wheels came off.



Even in the Utah State game, it seemed like there was a spark of energy from Nelson coming in, not because they like him better, but because the chains were moving again. Success breads success.

What if "the team likes Riley better" simply because of instead of sitting in the locker room telling everyone else how great he would be if only the offensive line would give him more time, and the coordinator called better plays, and the running backs hit the holes better and the defense helped stopped the other team, he gets told he's going to be #2 and wants to help the team out so much he throws on a beanie and plays special teams, is always in the lead of drills, encouraging and helping others do better? Spending extra time in practice working with guys. Is he still the problem then?



Because we have heard from Bronco Mendenhall that those are the things that Riley Nelson does, and we have heard some rumors about the other. Which one is more likely to be true? I don't know.

I have also heard that the players want Nelson over Heaps. However, I don't honestly think that any player intentionally doesn't play well for Heaps. What we saw at the end of the game on Friday is not a conspiracy to undermine Heaps. Its called momentum. You see it all the time where a team gets a spark and they all start playing better. On Friday that spark happened to be Nelson running hard and moving the ball. Sometimes it is a defensive player making a play, but momentum turns and all of the sudden everyone starts playing better.



Alleging that JJ, Hoffman, Jacobsen are intentionally playing bad because of Heaps is a pretty giant leap. You might as well allege that they are point shaving. Hoffman made plenty of amazing catches last year for Heaps. The catch he made on Friday for a TD he would have made for Heaps, but Heaps hasn't thrown a jump ball for him or Apo this year that was slightly under thrown. They have all been over thrown from Heaps...

Yes, true. And collusion over time wares away the weaker player. Yes, jake was not getting it done. BUt over time, it all falls on his shoulders. And yes, he played himself out of his starting job. But why did Bronco have to get all over the WR's last year? Their talent level didnt change. Their attitude and effort did. So its more subtle than sabotage or mutiny, but it is persistent, chronic, and even pernicious and most of all, waring. And it wore Jake down. Now I think he added to it as well with the whole golden child. And Apo is a part of that too. And the old guys dont like the Heaps/Apo "vaunted" connection.

Everybody can see that Jake aften looks to Apo first. He fantasizes about a lgendary connection there--as many QB'/WR connecions do: Montana/Rice and others come to mind.

So, not all Riley's fault. BUt A major part of it was.

I have also said when it comes to leadership and so many talking about how good Riley's is. Its nothing compared to what Gaskins did in realizing the reality of the situation and stepping aside graciously. I get Riley is a competitor, but he was doing more than patiently competing and waiting on the side.He wanted Jake to fail.

I was going to let it pass, but I couldn't. I think it's very unfair to say that Nelson "wanted Jake to fail." That's a huge leap.

This whole thing seems to reek of personal vendetta.

I think a lot of this is based on a lot of internet posters putting words into the mouths of the players...



Like I said before, if this is actually happening and Bronco could see it, I'm convinced there would be suspensions and or benchings. I can't imagine he'd tolerate it for a nanosecond.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
I think a lot of this is based on a lot of internet posters putting words into the mouths of the players...



Like I said before, if this is actually happening and Bronco could see it, I'm convinced there would be suspensions and or benchings. I can't imagine he'd tolerate it for a nanosecond.

Unless the way it has played out is aligned with core values of the program, which is possible. Riley Nelson is a Mendenhall type of guy.



Hans Olsen was telling stories about when he was on the team, they subtly sabotaged a highly touted tight end so his senior buddy would look better.



To me, McGregor is not just "an internet poster." If he decided to post it, then he is convinced it is the case.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
I think a lot of this is based on a lot of internet posters putting words into the mouths of the players...



Like I said before, if this is actually happening and Bronco could see it, I'm convinced there would be suspensions and or benchings. I can't imagine he'd tolerate it for a nanosecond.

+1

When Hawkwing and I were sitting together in the stands, I thought I hear Riley say as he was coming on the field, "All plans to subvert Heaps and his chances of success are coming to fruition! Okay, start making the plays I told you not to make for Jake." Must have been picked up by KSL's boom mike or something.

rblack wrote:
I was going to let it pass, but I couldn't. I think it's very unfair to say that Nelson "wanted Jake to fail." That's a huge leap.

Unless it is factual...but ultimately, I agree with the comprehensive set of posts from McGregor today:



Heaps played himself out of the game on Friday.

Nelson probably deserves an opportunity to play.

Nelson likely will not deserve to play long term based on what he projects will happen.

Heaps will probably be playing again before the year is out.



Then he tweeted about Nelson's influence. If this really is the case, the team needs to change. So, we can just add that to our mix of problems. Ha ha.

pjmuli wrote:

I was going to let it pass, but I couldn't. I think it's very unfair to say that Nelson "wanted Jake to fail." That's a huge leap.

Unless it is factual...but ultimately, I agree with the comprehensive set of posts from McGregor today:



Heaps played himself out of the game on Friday.

Nelson probably deserves an opportunity to play.

Nelson likely will not deserve to play long term based on what he projects will happen.

Heaps will probably be playing again before the year is out.



Then he tweeted about Nelson's influence. If this really is the case, the team needs to change. So, we can just add that to our mix of problems. Ha ha.

I didn't see the one about Heaps playing again before the year is out, can you copy and paste that one to the thread?

Some of you have either not been on teams where this dynamic was in play or just not been on a team.

Again, Im not excusing Jake's poor performance. And its not like the team didnt "give him a chance." BUt team chemistry is huge and if your guy isnt in, then hey why would I as a WR jump up to get that ball, Jake overthrows anyway.

The evidence is mounting. That or Hans was part of an atypically dysfunctional team and/or McGregor's rep is falling.

I suggested that OC last year was just the "identified patient" the problem child that represented something larger. He was the crazy guy who gave voice to what others were feeling and encouraging. Why else would he walk into Bronco's office and say, "jake's the problem?"

Some of you are in some serious denial, IMO.

hawkwing wrote:

rblack wrote:
I was going to let it pass, but I couldn't. I think it's very unfair to say that Nelson "wanted Jake to fail." That's a huge leap.

Unless it is factual...but ultimately, I agree with the comprehensive set of posts from McGregor today:



Heaps played himself out of the game on Friday.

Nelson probably deserves an opportunity to play.

Nelson likely will not deserve to play long term based on what he projects will happen.

Heaps will probably be playing again before the year is out.



Then he tweeted about Nelson's influence. If this really is the case, the team needs to change. So, we can just add that to our mix of problems. Ha ha.

I didn't see the one about Heaps playing again before the year is out, can you copy and paste that one to the thread?

Went to McGregor's feed and found this:

Best case for Heaps is to develop some toughness, then replace a stalled Nelson. Will be better for team chemistry. #BYU

But the context I got from his other comments seemed to say to me that this , replacing stalled Nelson, wasn't this year, but next year. However, I can't say exactly when mcgregor thinks Heaps would replace a stalled Nelson.

Here is mcgregor's timeline if you want to see all his comments yourself:

http://twitter.com/#!/josephmcgregor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hawkwing wrote:

pjmuli wrote:

I was going to let it pass, but I couldn't. I think it's very unfair to say that Nelson "wanted Jake to fail." That's a huge leap.

Unless it is factual...but ultimately, I agree with the comprehensive set of posts from McGregor today:



Heaps played himself out of the game on Friday.

Nelson probably deserves an opportunity to play.

Nelson likely will not deserve to play long term based on what he projects will happen.

Heaps will probably be playing again before the year is out.



Then he tweeted about Nelson's influence. If this really is the case, the team needs to change. So, we can just add that to our mix of problems. Ha ha.

I didn't see the one about Heaps playing again before the year is out, can you copy and paste that one to the thread?

Went to McGregor's feed and found this:

Best case for Heaps is to develop some toughness, then replace a stalled Nelson. Will be better for team chemistry. #BYU

But the context I got from his other comments seemed to say to me that this , replacing stalled Nelson, wasn't this year, but next year. However, I can't say exactly when mcgregor thinks Heaps would replace a stalled Nelson.

Yes, I probably read into it that Nelson would be replaced this year...but at the same time, I can't see Nelson doing well this year, and not earning and retaining the job next year.

pjmuli wrote:

I think a lot of this is based on a lot of internet posters putting words into the mouths of the players...



Like I said before, if this is actually happening and Bronco could see it, I'm convinced there would be suspensions and or benchings. I can't imagine he'd tolerate it for a nanosecond.

Unless the way it has played out is aligned with core values of the program, which is possible. Riley Nelson is a Mendenhall type of guy.



Hans Olsen was telling stories about when he was on the team, they subtly sabotaged a highly touted tight end so his senior buddy would look better.



To me, McGregor is not just "an internet poster." If he decided to post it, then he is convinced it is the case.

You think Mendenhall plays favorites? Teacher's pet? You think in his core he would allow this kind of behavior from one of his players? I don't know the man, but I've been to a fireside and heard dozens of press conferences. If Mendenhall felt something like this were going on he'd be the first to kill it.

I have some inside info on this, and while I can not say that Riley has been a bad influence, because I do not know, I can say that many older players on the team have had issues with Jake, and some do not like him. And that there is a bit of an upperclassman-lowerclassman split on this team, along with an RM, non-RM split amongst the members. It also played itself out on the field during the USU game and was easy to see how the team reacted to things. This team has issues. Hope they get over them. Quickly.