Archived Topic

Why hasn't Heaps improved?

by vancouvercougar · 10/2/2011

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vancouvercougar
I have been a BYU fan long long before Heaps was born. Our Qb's were always juniors or seniors (sometimes with a redshirt year added in). Detmer redshirted then played at the end of his Freshman year. JOhn Beck played as a true freshman, but that was after a mission, and he only played one year with a winning season.



I expect Heaps to be great someday, but I think it will have to be in a different season.



What I want to know is why did Heaps look so good in the bowl game and so bad in the games this season?
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snoscythe
BYU hasn't played a team anywhere near as abysmal as UTEP this season....yet.
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Cougarbib
snoscythe wrote:
BYU hasn't played a team anywhere near as abysmal as UTEP this season....yet.

And even UTEP had a QB playing injured. They were not the team that earned that lowly bowl spot and our team was in synch. The team rallied behind Heaps because he may have been our best option at that point in time with Riley injured. Riley's injury ended the QB controversy last year. The team has always respected Riley more than Jake.



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mizzoucoug
LOL Sno. I don't think any of us can really know, but I'd venture to say most of it has to do with coaching. Doman is busy trying to run a cohesive offense so Heaps probably isn't getting the tips he needs. It might be time to get Detmer in here to help out.
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SpiffCoug
There's no room on the coaching staff for Detmer - not right now at least. Maybe when Reynolds retires?



Maybe Jake isn't listening to his coaches right now? Maybe he's pressing so much that nothing is really processing. No one is getting through to him. Everything is coming at him too quickly. This is why I think a break will be good for him.
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Cougarbib
SpiffCoug wrote:
There's no room on the coaching staff for Detmer - not right now at least. Maybe when Reynolds retires?



Maybe Jake isn't listening to his coaches right now? Maybe he's pressing so much that nothing is really processing. No one is getting through to him. Everything is coming at him too quickly. This is why I think a break will be good for him.

Jake needs to be in a HE double C K I am not the starter or 2nd starter or even close to being the starter frame of mind to face up to what HE needs to do to improve instead of WAITING for EVERYONE ELSE to step up. It will take a few weeks or longer of a different tide lifting all of the leaky boats. If Lark also shows ability to rally the team - maybe Heaps will finally realize that he is not yet a good D1 QB and that the problem is not EVERYONE ELSE.



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Cougarbib
SpiffCoug wrote:
There's no room on the coaching staff for Detmer - not right now at least. Maybe when Reynolds retires?



Maybe Jake isn't listening to his coaches right now? Maybe he's pressing so much that nothing is really processing. No one is getting through to him. Everything is coming at him too quickly. This is why I think a break will be good for him.

Yes. There is a limit and we are at it. And maybe by then Detmer will actually have a coaching track record, need a job, want to leave Texas, and be ready to work hard. He was enjoying semi-retirement before he lost almost all of his money.



Folks you have seen what coaching changes buy. Big improvement when a PROVEN coach like Bronco fires Hill and takes over the D. Confusion, disarray, learning curve, and Potential when inexperienced coaches are brought in, three at a time, and are foolish enough to change a bunch of things facing a tough early schedule, when they could have leveraged TEN returning starters that knew the old scheme. Detmer = Cahoon. Popular. POTENTIAL. Inexperienced. Get him some more experience - he is turning aroundcan abysmal high school program as we speak. Let that develop. When Reynolds goes - work in a new guy. If Norm Chow has a sense of humor - not likely - get him. If he does not and Leach is not lifestyle compatible or humble enough to drop down in status and pay - he is not likely either - maybe we give Detmer a shot - if he actually wants the shot. He will have a bunch of college age girls by then. Maybe they could all hang out in Provo.



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Gunk
It's in his head. Kid can make sick passes, but for every 1 good throw he makes he tosses 4 poor ones.



As mentioned before, Bronco keep stats on the types of players that typically do well at BYU. They're either RMs, grew up on a farm, had a job while in HS or overcame some type of adversity. Heaps has done none of those.



He was the golden boy all through high school. He was the golden boy the moment he stepped foot on the BYU campus. I know he works hard, but I'm sure he thought the college game would come to him like HS football and he'd soon find himself playing in the NFL. It hasn't. He made excuses (I'm new, I need a running game, those were the best defenses BYU has played against, etc.) and when all the excuses were left behind the same level of performance persisted cause it's in his head.



Listen to Riley's post game interview and compare it Heaps post game interviews. There's the difference. True, Riley was playing hurt last season, but I've seen more improvement in Riley than in Heaps. Riley even seems faster this season.
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Schmoe
I've seen other QBs and many other players under these same coaches get better. There is no way we can know why Heaps is not improving, but he's not, and he's the one who can change that.
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Cougy_Monster
There is a reason (besides preparing for injuries) that teams recruit a bunch of QBs. Some guys simply just don't make it in college for whatever reason.



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Ungoy
I think what ails this offense is when Heaps is playing is 99% mental, and not just with Heaps. If you work a job where you don't like your boss, you don't go out of your way to excel at your job. You don't go out of your way to develop a good working relationship with them.



Likewise in football, if players don't like the QB they're playing with, they aren't going to play well for them. They aren't going to go out of their way to try and make the grabs. They will just go through the motions. Then when they don't make the grabs it's easy to blame the QB they don't like. I believe this is part of what's happening.



The other part is (back to the job analogy) you have a manager who's cocky, thinks they're better than everyone else, and really doesn't do all that much to show why they have the job they do. They're resented by those beneath them, and co-workers will often try to undermine him in order to get someone in the position who they feel deserve it.



In football, you have a QB like Heaps, a great on paper QB, who has done little in game to prove he is the man. He's cocky and overconfident and takes some responsibility while excusing himself from other issues. He shows no signs of improving his game, and seems nonchalant abot the fact that he's playing poorly, deferring responsibility to other players (ie: run game, or receivers) The players take offense, and further, feel he doesn't deserve his position, and do little in exerting themselves on the field. They again just go through the motions while doing little to go above and beyond.



the problem at it's most basic, is that The players don't trust Heaps, and Heaps doesn't trust them. He probably sees it as impossible to improve when the teams plays hard when Riley is in, and doesn't when he's in. The team probably feels that as long as Heaps is playing that the offense is going to suck.



I'm not sure this ever gets fixed, because I'm not sure that the team will ever respect Heaps. Even if he sits the rest of the year, red shirts next, and comes back better than ever, there will be some people who only see the freshman when he's out there. They'll see the entitled, spoiled golden boy. I'm sad to say this, but I don't think that Heaps will ever have the respect of his team, regardless as to whether next time he's justified in earning it. as such, I don't think that he ever reaches his potential (There's that word again...). I think there will be too much bad blood.
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Guest
The way Heaps responds to being benched and whether or not he supports the team, even if it means his not starting will answer whether or not he can ever become a leader that his teammates will respect and follow. If he gets out there and hustles, plays hard in practice and does absolutely everything he can to pump up his teammates even in a 2nd or 3rd role then his teammates will respect him.



If he pouts or sulks at all he will lose them completely.
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Ungoy
hawkwing wrote:
The way Heaps responds to being benched and whether or not he supports the team, even if it means his not starting will answer whether or not he can ever become a leader that his teammates will respect and follow. If he gets out there and hustles, plays hard in practice and does absolutely everything he can to pump up his teammates even in a 2nd or 3rd role then his teammates will respect him.



If he pouts or sulks at all he will lose them completely.


I hope that you're right, but it seems like he had already lost the team completely or rather, never had it to begin with. I don't think that he'll go all "woe is me" and sulk and pout. I think he does have a passion for football and genuine desire to play well. I think he'll improve after some valuable time on the bench plus a possible red shirt, but I still question as to whether or not the team stands behind him when the time comes that he's the field general again. I just don't know. Sometimes even when someone does their best tom improve, it's not enough for some. Sometimes, first impression is last and only impression.
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Cougarbib
Players like to win and they like to achieve. The really good ones will push themselves any time it matters - until a QB loses the team. If they do not trust him, it gets worse. If you are a WR and you know Jake is going to lock onto Apo and not look down - in that situation you might not fight as hard. At some point, you just want Heaos gone and someone in who will not play favorites - then you might get passive aggressive resistance. If you know Jake is always looking to the outside or a specific side - you might figure why bother to fight for an extra inch or two of separation and risk getting a penalty for pushing off. You start thinking whether to will an extra half second holding your block with guys pounding your knees and body and know Jake is going to rush the throw anyway - it all starts to ebb instead of flow. Now a ball finally comes your way and it might be too soon or too tall or behind or in the dirt and you look where it is supposed to be and then tighten and frantically look for it. Then Jake grabs the mike and days he has confidence in his guys and knows THEY are all going to rise up. You can't learn this stuff in skellys.



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Ungoy
I wonder why receivers didn't have problems back in '07 an '08... Hall completed at least what seemed to be a high percentage of his passes to Collie and Pitta. Sometimes one could even argue, Hall locked on to Collie and didn't check down. Why did the other receivers not have a problem? Why did they still fight and play hard even though passes to them were few and far between? The only non-common-denominator is that BYU was winning games those years. I don't know, it just seems silly to contribute in bringing the whole offense down, just cause you're not getting the ball as much as you like. We call Jake selfish, and childish at times, but if receivers are really out there actively taking part in getting Heaps off the field by not playing hard for him, then they too are being selfish and childish.



I agree with what you're saying Bib, and it is a likely explanation, but in actuality, behavior like that of Heaps, and like that of his teammates toward Heaps reek of childishness. It sucks all the way around. I will go on record that it was a team (offensive) effort that caused the offense to suck. Heaps didn't play well, and didn't improve, but his teammates did not go out of their ways to help him improve either. They wanted him gone, and it was evidenced by their behavior toward Riley when he took over.
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Ungoy
I will also go on record saying that I am not defending heaps, nor am I excusing his poor play. I'm not even saying that he should be starting right now. What I'm saying is that based on what I've seen, there needs to be a fundamental shift of attitude on this team, both by Heaps and by his teammates. They all play for BYU, and they need to stand with each other, and have each others back. To Heaps: Hanging your guys out to dry and not taking responsibility sucks, and he needs to get over that now. To the rest of the team: Hanging the (at the time) starting QB out to dry and not playing your best, and possibly even intentionally playing lack luster also sucks, because it makes Heaps look worse than he is. Both sides, Heaps, and the rest of the team need to get over it, and put the team first, and support whoever the coaches decide to put in the game.
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SpiffCoug
The best way for Heaps to regain confidence both in himself and his teammates is go to work. Work for the betterment of the team. Focus on others. Forget himself and go to work. Don't worry about the games. Worry about helping your teammates.
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Ungoy
Agreed Spiff. Heaps does need to work at bettering the team. All I'm saying is that the team should help each other. As much as Heaps needs to help the team, the rest of the team needs to help and support Heaps as well. When he's benched, don't let him slide into obscurity. Help him become better. The humility part will come as he continues to sit. I think Heaps will get there, I just hope that the rest of the team helps him get there.
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Gunk
Ungoy wrote:
I wonder why receivers didn't have problems back in '07 an '08... Hall completed at least what seemed to be a high percentage of his passes to Collie and Pitta. Sometimes one could even argue, Hall locked on to Collie and didn't check down. Why did the other receivers not have a problem? Why did they still fight and play hard even though passes to them were few and far between? The only non-common-denominator is that BYU was winning games those years. I don't know, it just seems silly to contribute in bringing the whole offense down, just cause you're not getting the ball as much as you like. We call Jake selfish, and childish at times, but if receivers are really out there actively taking part in getting Heaps off the field by not playing hard for him, then they too are being selfish and childish.



I agree with what you're saying Bib, and it is a likely explanation, but in actuality, behavior like that of Heaps, and like that of his teammates toward Heaps reek of childishness. It sucks all the way around. I will go on record that it was a team (offensive) effort that caused the offense to suck. Heaps didn't play well, and didn't improve, but his teammates did not go out of their ways to help him improve either. They wanted him gone, and it was evidenced by their behavior toward Riley when he took over.


If the team is winning, no one complains. Look at the Yankees. You rarely hear of complaining or politics within the Yankees. Why? The team wins. There's nothing like winning.



Once the team starts to lose or perform poorly, that's when discord emerges. Probably because everyone on the team thinks they could do better - if I got the ball I could get us touchdowns.



With players like Collie and Pitta that performed and caught pretty much everything that was thrown to them, you couldn't really pick on them. Can't argue with feeding athletes like that the ball. It would have been like picking on Jimmer for busting out 50 points.
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MountainMD
For a team that seems to rely a lot on heart when pure athleticism doesn't always seem to be the easiest to recruit, I think some of these "ideals" that are being suggested are short-sighted and likely contradictory to reality. On one hand, I see suggestions that Heaps needs to "work" (from the bench, I assume). At other times, I hear that Heaps is a "practice Heisman". Suppose Heaps excels at practice all week - executing better than Riley (or Lark or Munns) - everything we have ever heard suggests this has been and will be the case again.



Does a team relying on practice effort and execution at almost every position run the risk of not playing the person who best preformed? What message does that send to our other 104 guys? That the "2nd of 63000" fans and 1 good game will determine who gets to play? If that is the message we send, I don't care if we suit deity up at QB , BYU will be in trouble and will stay that way for years to come if Bronco sets that precedent.



I applaud Riley. I wish Jake would wake up. However, I am shocked at the perception that a clear answer has come or that Heaps is best benched. Riley was great, but his superiority - particularly consistent superiority is far from proven.



Benching Heaps and making Riley the starter for the next 2 years would not seem typical or Bronco based on the data available so far. To assume this a given when reports indicate that Jake has consistently been outperforming Riley (or Lark or Munns) borders on insanity.
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