My changed view of this season

[KingCoug]

Bronco would have beaten Cal, no question. Sitake almost did.

Bronco would have beaten USU too. He would have lasses against WA, Wisconsin, and Utah, and we would have been angry with him because we were spoiled.

I'm not so sure that Bronco wouldn't have beaten Wisconsin either since they have turned out to not be what we thought they were.

Bronco was nothing if not consistent in usually beating the teams he was "supposed to beat" and usually losing to the teams he was "supposed to lose" to. He would have lost to Wisconsin but beat Utah State.

Bronco would have the team prepared for a fight in every game this season. Wisconsin was the only game where Kalani had them prepared for a fight and we shocked the world. IMO, a Bronco led team would have won that game too because Wisconsin is now out of the top 25. They are not as good as they were projected to be.

I think the current problems with Sitake are making you see Bronco with rose colored glasses.

Going by what we know about Bronco, he would have won the first two games against Arizona and Cal and built excitement. We might have entered the Top 25 by that point and people would be talking about BYU being a team to watch. But then, as so often happened, he would have inexplicably wet the bed in the third game (look up his record on game #3's) and we would have been been beaten soundly. The talk would have changed to BYU being exposed and it would have been business as usual from there. Including another loss to Utah.

Sorry but Bronco was too often fool's gold. Sure, that's better than the turd Sitake is laying now but that doesnt mean I want Bronco back or do I think that him currently winning at Virginia automatically means we would be successful now had he stayed at BYU. He'd be doing better than Sitake but that's not saying much.

As I've said many times, with wanting Bronco gone I was prepared for some rough sledding with other coaches. Sitake isn't the answer and so we need to keep looking. But, as I also keep saying, BYU's current problems go beyond the head coach. There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed and that falls on Tom Holmoe.

[ABYUFAN]

There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed

I'm sorry if you've made this clear before and I cannot recall - but what in your mind are these major systemic issues?

[frdbtr]

Bronco would have beaten Cal, no question. Sitake almost did.

Bronco would have beaten USU too. He would have lasses against WA, Wisconsin, and Utah, and we would have been angry with him because we were spoiled.

I'm not so sure that Bronco wouldn't have beaten Wisconsin either since they have turned out to not be what we thought they were.

Bronco was nothing if not consistent in usually beating the teams he was "supposed to beat" and usually losing to the teams he was "supposed to lose" to. He would have lost to Wisconsin but beat Utah State.

Bronco would have the team prepared for a fight in every game this season. Wisconsin was the only game where Kalani had them prepared for a fight and we shocked the world. IMO, a Bronco led team would have won that game too because Wisconsin is now out of the top 25. They are not as good as they were projected to be.

I think the current problems with Sitake are making you see Bronco with rose colored glasses.

Going by what we know about Bronco, he would have won the first two games against Arizona and Cal and built excitement. We might have entered the Top 25 by that point and people would be talking about BYU being a team to watch. But then, as so often happened, he would have inexplicably wet the bed in the third game (look up his record on game #3's) and we would have been been beaten soundly. The talk would have changed to BYU being exposed and it would have been business as usual from there. Including another loss to Utah.

Sorry but Bronco was too often fool's gold. Sure, that's better than the turd Sitake is laying now but that doesnt mean I want Bronco back or do I think that him currently winning at Virginia automatically means we would be successful now had he stayed at BYU. He'd be doing better than Sitake but that's not saying much.

As I've said many times, with wanting Bronco gone I was prepared for some rough sledding with other coaches. Sitake isn't the answer and so we need to keep looking. But, as I also keep saying, BYU's current problems go beyond the head coach. There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed and that falls on Tom Holmoe.

I'm remembering Bronco for what he was. If you read my posts I have been pretty consistant on what I thought bronco was from way back. Bronco did more with less than any coach I have ever watched. BYU had just lost 8 recruits from a recruiting class in 2004 and Bronco had to build a defense with a bunch of walk on's and in 2006 they had one of the best defenses in the country. In 2012 after a few recruiting classes to rebuild the defense, we had the #1 ranked defense in the country. Bronco was just getting the offense rolling in 2015 when he left. If he had stayed, the last 3 years could have been some of the best years we would have had with him because of the way the schedule broke when it looked very difficult. Bronco with Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams in 2016 probably goes undefeated.

[ABYUFAN]

Bronco with Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams in 2016 probably goes undefeated.

For what it's worth I've thought this same thing more than once over the last few years

[KingCoug]

There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed

I'm sorry if you've made this clear before and I cannot recall - but what in your mind are these major systemic issues?

The program acting (and scheduling) like it wants to be a P5 but not spending P5 money. Holmoe thinks he can schedule 5, 6, or 7 P5 opponents a year and we'll somehow hold our own with subpar coaching.

I'm remembering Bronco for what he was. If you read my posts I have been pretty consistant on what I thought bronco was from way back. Bronco did more with less than any coach I have ever watched. BYU had just lost 8 recruits from a recruiting class in 2004 and Bronco had to build a defense with a bunch of walk on's and in 2006 they had one of the best defenses in the country. In 2012 after a few recruiting classes to rebuild the defense, we had the #1 ranked defense in the country. Bronco was just getting the offense rolling in 2015 when he left. If he had stayed, the last 3 years could have been some of the best years we would have had with him because of the way the schedule broke when it looked very difficult. Bronco with Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams in 2016 probably goes undefeated.

You gotta be kidding me. Bronco had 11 years and he never could break through that 10 or 11 win ceiling. But now, after he's gone, you're going to say "Oh but he would have gone undefeated with Taysom and Jamal."

Yeah, right.

Bronco did a great job turning things around after the Crowton mess. But that ended up being part of the problem. His best team was the 2006 team. As the years went on, he seemed to get more comfortable and less hungry. He sure didn't seem to care much whether we won or lost the rivalry game with Utah.

[frdbtr]

There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed

I'm sorry if you've made this clear before and I cannot recall - but what in your mind are these major systemic issues?

The program acting (and scheduling) like it wants to be a P5 but not spending P5 money. Holmoe thinks he can schedule 5, 6, or 7 P5 opponents a year and we'll somehow hold our own with subpar coaching.

I'm remembering Bronco for what he was. If you read my posts I have been pretty consistant on what I thought bronco was from way back. Bronco did more with less than any coach I have ever watched. BYU had just lost 8 recruits from a recruiting class in 2004 and Bronco had to build a defense with a bunch of walk on's and in 2006 they had one of the best defenses in the country. In 2012 after a few recruiting classes to rebuild the defense, we had the #1 ranked defense in the country. Bronco was just getting the offense rolling in 2015 when he left. If he had stayed, the last 3 years could have been some of the best years we would have had with him because of the way the schedule broke when it looked very difficult. Bronco with Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams in 2016 probably goes undefeated.

You gotta be kidding me. Bronco had 11 years and he never could break through that 10 or 11 win ceiling. But now, after he's gone, you're going to say "Oh but he would have gone undefeated with Taysom and Jamal."

Yeah, right.

Bronco did a great job turning things around after the Crowton mess. But that ended up being part of the problem. His best team was the 2006 team. As the years went on, he seemed to get more comfortable and less hungry. He sure didn't seem to care much whether we won or lost the rivalry game with Utah.

You do remember 2016 right? BYU lost 4 games by a total of 7 points (or something like that). That was with the current incompetent coaching staff. The way the schedule broke made a bunch of murders row teams look beatable. I feel pretty comfortable saying that a better coached Bronco team would have likely gone undefeated. Now we will never know of course, because Bronco was having a rough first year at Virginia. On a side note, have you noticed Virginia in the top 25 of all the polls? Yeah, Bronco sucks. As far as Bronco caring about the Rivalry. I think you need to realize that you were looking at outward appearances, you shouldn't judge so harshly. I have listened to him talk and the rivalry ate him up. In fact I think that was one of the issues he had with the rivalry, it got in his head. I think he wanted it so bad that it trickled to the team and they played tight. I think it would have only taken the streak to get broken and BYU would have been competitive again year to year with that, but once again we will never know because now he is coaching Virginia and has them in the top 25 where they haven't been in years.

[KingCoug]

There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed

I'm sorry if you've made this clear before and I cannot recall - but what in your mind are these major systemic issues?

The program acting (and scheduling) like it wants to be a P5 but not spending P5 money. Holmoe thinks he can schedule 5, 6, or 7 P5 opponents a year and we'll somehow hold our own with subpar coaching.

I'm remembering Bronco for what he was. If you read my posts I have been pretty consistant on what I thought bronco was from way back. Bronco did more with less than any coach I have ever watched. BYU had just lost 8 recruits from a recruiting class in 2004 and Bronco had to build a defense with a bunch of walk on's and in 2006 they had one of the best defenses in the country. In 2012 after a few recruiting classes to rebuild the defense, we had the #1 ranked defense in the country. Bronco was just getting the offense rolling in 2015 when he left. If he had stayed, the last 3 years could have been some of the best years we would have had with him because of the way the schedule broke when it looked very difficult. Bronco with Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams in 2016 probably goes undefeated.

You gotta be kidding me. Bronco had 11 years and he never could break through that 10 or 11 win ceiling. But now, after he's gone, you're going to say "Oh but he would have gone undefeated with Taysom and Jamal."

Yeah, right.

Bronco did a great job turning things around after the Crowton mess. But that ended up being part of the problem. His best team was the 2006 team. As the years went on, he seemed to get more comfortable and less hungry. He sure didn't seem to care much whether we won or lost the rivalry game with Utah.

You do remember 2016 right? BYU lost 4 games by a total of 7 points (or something like that). That was with the current incompetent coaching staff. The way the schedule broke made a bunch of murders row teams look beatable. I feel pretty comfortable saying that a better coached Bronco team would have likely gone undefeated. Now we will never know of course, because Bronco was having a rough first year at Virginia. On a side note, have you noticed Virginia in the top 25 of all the polls? Yeah, Bronco sucks. As far as Bronco caring about the Rivalry. I think you need to realize that you were looking at outward appearances, you shouldn't judge so harshly. I have listened to him talk and the rivalry ate him up. In fact I think that was one of the issues he had with the rivalry, it got in his head. I think he wanted it so bad that it trickled to the team and they played tight. I think it would have only taken the streak to get broken and BYU would have been competitive again year to year with that, but once again we will never know because now he is coaching Virginia and has them in the top 25 where they haven't been in years.

Bronco may have had 10 or 11 wins in 2016 but, as I said, that was his ceiling. He's always going to drop a game or two at least. And how well he's doing in Virginia has nothing to do with how he would be doing here. Apples and bowling balls.

As for the rivalry, whatever the explanation is, he ended up being Kyle's you-know-what. Both Whittingam and Gary Patterson owned Bronco. Those three teams used to be right at the top together in the Mountain West. And then we saw Utah and TCU leave us behind...even before they joined P5 conferences.

5 straight losses to Utah alone was enough reason to want him gone. It was sadly fitting that his last game as BYU coach was losing to Utah.

[frdbtr]

There are major systemic issues that aren't being addressed

I'm sorry if you've made this clear before and I cannot recall - but what in your mind are these major systemic issues?

The program acting (and scheduling) like it wants to be a P5 but not spending P5 money. Holmoe thinks he can schedule 5, 6, or 7 P5 opponents a year and we'll somehow hold our own with subpar coaching.

I'm remembering Bronco for what he was. If you read my posts I have been pretty consistant on what I thought bronco was from way back. Bronco did more with less than any coach I have ever watched. BYU had just lost 8 recruits from a recruiting class in 2004 and Bronco had to build a defense with a bunch of walk on's and in 2006 they had one of the best defenses in the country. In 2012 after a few recruiting classes to rebuild the defense, we had the #1 ranked defense in the country. Bronco was just getting the offense rolling in 2015 when he left. If he had stayed, the last 3 years could have been some of the best years we would have had with him because of the way the schedule broke when it looked very difficult. Bronco with Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams in 2016 probably goes undefeated.

You gotta be kidding me. Bronco had 11 years and he never could break through that 10 or 11 win ceiling. But now, after he's gone, you're going to say "Oh but he would have gone undefeated with Taysom and Jamal."

Yeah, right.

Bronco did a great job turning things around after the Crowton mess. But that ended up being part of the problem. His best team was the 2006 team. As the years went on, he seemed to get more comfortable and less hungry. He sure didn't seem to care much whether we won or lost the rivalry game with Utah.

You do remember 2016 right? BYU lost 4 games by a total of 7 points (or something like that). That was with the current incompetent coaching staff. The way the schedule broke made a bunch of murders row teams look beatable. I feel pretty comfortable saying that a better coached Bronco team would have likely gone undefeated. Now we will never know of course, because Bronco was having a rough first year at Virginia. On a side note, have you noticed Virginia in the top 25 of all the polls? Yeah, Bronco sucks. As far as Bronco caring about the Rivalry. I think you need to realize that you were looking at outward appearances, you shouldn't judge so harshly. I have listened to him talk and the rivalry ate him up. In fact I think that was one of the issues he had with the rivalry, it got in his head. I think he wanted it so bad that it trickled to the team and they played tight. I think it would have only taken the streak to get broken and BYU would have been competitive again year to year with that, but once again we will never know because now he is coaching Virginia and has them in the top 25 where they haven't been in years.

Bronco may have had 10 or 11 wins in 2016 but, as I said, that was his ceiling. He's always going to drop a game or two at least. And how well he's doing in Virginia has nothing to do with how he would be doing here. Apples and bowling balls.

As for the rivalry, whatever the explanation is, he ended up being Kyle's you-know-what. Both Whittingam and Gary Patterson owned Bronco. Those three teams used to be right at the top together in the Mountain West. And then we saw Utah and TCU leave us behind...even before they joined P5 conferences.

5 straight losses to Utah alone was enough reason to want him gone. It was sadly fitting that his last game as BYU coach was losing to Utah.

utah had left us behind even before going P5? Really? Hmmmmm, you do realize that BYU won the conference between 05-10 2 times, finished ahead of the utes all but 08 and 10 during that time and had a 3-3 record against them during that time right? I don't think that was being left behind. The phantom fumble in the 10 game cost us a win that year and then it all fell apart in 11. I don't know why Bronco's teams under performed drastically during independence against the utes but I can promise you it wasn't because Bronco didn't care about winning that game. Bronco's record at Virginia is the epitome of who he is as a coach. He took over a horrible team, he has a talent level below his competitors his recruiting classes have, so far been below ACC standards and yet he is still at the top of his division this year and in the top 25. You say we can do better than Bronco, IMO that remains to be seen because our first attempt has been a miserable failure, and besides naming pie in the sky guys like Mike Leach and Andy Reid, no one has his qualifications as head coach.

[KingCoug]

utah had left us behind even before going P5? Really? Hmmmmm, you do realize that BYU won the conference between 05-10 2 times, finished ahead of the utes all but 08 and 10 during that time and had a 3-3 record against them during that time right? I don't think that was being left behind. The phantom fumble in the 10 game cost us a win that year and then it all fell apart in 11. I don't know why Bronco's teams under performed drastically during independence against the utes but I can promise you it wasn't because Bronco didn't care about winning that game. Bronco's record at Virginia is the epitome of who he is as a coach. He took over a horrible team, he has a talent level below his competitors his recruiting classes have, so far been below ACC standards and yet he is still at the top of his division this year and in the top 25. You say we can do better than Bronco, IMO that remains to be seen because our first attempt has been a miserable failure, and besides naming pie in the sky guys like Mike Leach and Andy Reid, no one has his qualifications as head coach.

You won't see me mentioning Reid or Leach much because they're not realistic.

But both Niumatalolo and Harsin have head coaching experience, which Bronco didn't have before becoming head coach at BYU. Anderson is now DC and co-head coach at Stanford. I'd take any of those three.

[frdbtr]

utah had left us behind even before going P5? Really? Hmmmmm, you do realize that BYU won the conference between 05-10 2 times, finished ahead of the utes all but 08 and 10 during that time and had a 3-3 record against them during that time right? I don't think that was being left behind. The phantom fumble in the 10 game cost us a win that year and then it all fell apart in 11. I don't know why Bronco's teams under performed drastically during independence against the utes but I can promise you it wasn't because Bronco didn't care about winning that game. Bronco's record at Virginia is the epitome of who he is as a coach. He took over a horrible team, he has a talent level below his competitors his recruiting classes have, so far been below ACC standards and yet he is still at the top of his division this year and in the top 25. You say we can do better than Bronco, IMO that remains to be seen because our first attempt has been a miserable failure, and besides naming pie in the sky guys like Mike Leach and Andy Reid, no one has his qualifications as head coach.

You won't see me mentioning Reid or Leach much because they're not realistic.

But both Niumatalolo and Harsin have head coaching experience, which Bronco didn't have before becoming head coach at BYU. Anderson is now DC and co-head coach at Stanford. I'd take any of those three.

Coach N and Anderson were my favorites last time and Neither were given a serious look. They still would be high on my list but will either consider the job again? I don't know the answer to that.