We need to quit with this "well considering..." talk

[SpiffCoug]

I can hear it now...

"despite the fact that we shot so poorly tonight and struggled against the zone, I'll take the away victory..."

This team has some major issues to work on, folks.

Can put this post into this category for your post history?

Check my post history - all I have said TIME AND TIME again is that we are a good team

[craigoscarson]

I get annoyed with this thread every time I see it.

How about for once, we enjoy the ride. We're not getting Jimmer or Jax back for another year.

There's more to college hoops than the final four.

We've played very few games at the Marriot Center this season... there have been years where if this were the case, we'd have 1 win right now.. including our awesome to watch 2003 team that laid eggs on the road all season.

(this goes for those that spent hours upon hours with the Heaps/Nelson discussion... ultimately it was fruitless...sometimes we just have to sit back and watch... our relentless criticisms don't really change the outcome)

[Italics]

I can hear it now...

"despite the fact that we shot so poorly tonight and struggled against the zone, I'll take the away victory..."

This team has some major issues to work on, folks.

Can put this post into this category for your post history?

Check my post history - all I have said TIME AND TIME again is that we are a good team

I'm not sure how saying our teams has some serious issues means we're not a good team.

Now if I said we were a GREAT team and then said something like that...

As I said before, some people see the W, and that's it.
That's why fans of teams like Cleveland State would probably be in shock if their basketball team played a decent opponent and lost.

[Italics]

I get annoyed with this thread every time I see it.

How about for once, we enjoy the ride. We're not getting Jimmer or Jax back for another year.

There's more to college hoops than the final four.

We've played very few games at the Marriot Center this season... there have been years where if this were the case, we'd have 1 win right now.. including our awesome to watch 2003 team that laid eggs on the road all season.

(this goes for those that spent hours upon hours with the Heaps/Nelson discussion... ultimately it was fruitless...sometimes we just have to sit back and watch... our relentless criticisms don't really change the outcome)

This whole post is EXTREMELY ironic considering you were the one throwing a fit over the 2-QB system... in fact, you said if they didn't stop it that you would give up on BYU sports and never give them another dollar of your money again.

Enjoy the ride... don't complain.

Right.

[craigoscarson]

I get annoyed with this thread every time I see it.

How about for once, we enjoy the ride. We're not getting Jimmer or Jax back for another year.

There's more to college hoops than the final four.

We've played very few games at the Marriot Center this season... there have been years where if this were the case, we'd have 1 win right now.. including our awesome to watch 2003 team that laid eggs on the road all season.

(this goes for those that spent hours upon hours with the Heaps/Nelson discussion... ultimately it was fruitless...sometimes we just have to sit back and watch... our relentless criticisms don't really change the outcome)

This whole post is EXTREMELY ironic considering you were the one throwing a fit over the 2-QB system... in fact, you said if they didn't stop it that you would give up on BYU sports and never give them another dollar of your money again.

Enjoy the ride... don't complain.

Right.

You can't find a single post of me making a fit about the 2 qb system, and you certainly can't link wins or losses; or the qb system as to why I would consider stopping contributing to BYU... I made a conscious effort to stay out of the Heaps vs Nelson debate, except to say that as a true freshman he's entitled to make mistakes and we'll lose games as a result. Lost games which I expected and predicted, long before anyone else on this forum did. So in fact, that only goes to promote my feeling about enjoying the ride with this hoops team.

My entire point all football season long was to keep an even keel and enjoy the ride... I assure you that any regular read this year would back me up on that... I simply did not complain much, unless it was about the receiving corps and oneill chambers. I predicted a tough early season and several lossesbefore the season started and I also predicted we'd make it to a bowl game before it seemed remotely sane to do so. Feel free to check my posts...

My point about donating to BYU (or not doing so) was about one thing and one thing only and it had nothing to do with wins and losses or anything on the field... which is what this entire thread pertains to. It had to do with the MWC giving TV concessions ... The MWC didn't budge so BYU never had to decide to stay in light of concessions. My concern was that BYU would do what some suggested and bail as a form of pride and anger, even if the MWC gave in. I never had to worry about that actual hypothetical because the MWC is stupider than I even gave them credit for. It also had nothing to do with being a fan of BYU or not, it hypothetically had to do with not being able to support a terrible decision (which BYU makes very few of... the last of which was how they handled Elaine Michaelis, which several of my BYU friends did indeed not donate that year...) BYU isn't perfect, they make mistakes too and their boosters need to let them know when it happens.

Please avoid pulling a Mars and simply inventing an argument that doesn't exist, it's petty and unattractive, particularly when I can so easily refute it.

Nearly everything I posted this year during the football season pertains to my belief that we need to enjoy the ride; and what a ride it was this football season and what a ride it's been with this hoops team.

[Italics]

^ That didn't address at all the cold hard fact that you said you'd give up on BYU sports if they didn't stop the 2-QB system. I remember you saying how ridiculous you thought it was.

I'm not going to dig through your posts... it's not worth it. You remember making that promise, I don't need to convince you.

It's not worth it anyway... I don't even think that what you said was all that bad. I'm just simply pointing out the fact that it's ironic, that's all.

PS - This thread is not about wins and losses. It's about people using wins as a shield against any and all logical points made about the serious weaknesses of this team

[craigoscarson]

^ That didn't address at all the cold hard fact that you said you'd give up on BYU sports if they didn't stop the 2-QB system. I remember you saying how ridiculous you thought it was.

I'm not going to dig through your posts... it's not worth it. You remember making that promise, I don't need to convince you.

It's not worth it anyway... I don't even think that what you said was all that bad. I'm just simply pointing out the fact that it's ironic, that's all.

PS - This thread is not about wins and losses. It's about people using wins as a shield against any and all logical points made about the serious weaknesses of this team

Again, your confabulatory nature is appalling. I never once said a thing about the 2 qb system this entire year, except that Nelson did not have the arm strength that some believed he had. Do your homework or don't post, it just makes you look silly. My donation statement had nothing to do with on the field performance, in fact it had nothing to do with football persay; just about politics of independence vs the mwc. It wasn't a popular statement I made, but it had nothing to do with performance and you wont' have anyone that can back you up in the contrary. It was a hypothetical addressing what some on this forum said BYU should do just to spite the MWC; I on the other hand said that this was business and that anger and spite are not a good enough reason to bail on the MWC IF they gave into our demands. Since they didn't do so, then BYU never had to even make that decision; however Tom Holmoe had suggested more than once that they would have listened if the MWC gave in to their broadcasting demands.

Regardless, this thread is annoying and short sighted. Yep, our team has short comings, we knew that and expected it before the season started; there were a litany of posts about Davies inconsistency, Collinsworths not being able to shoot outside, etc. etc. etc. We're not hardly a perfect team, but the sky is falling attitude is frankly disgusting considering our record.

It's okay to be happy with the result and still be incontent about some of the performance. To assume that we're content about the performance is shortsighted and a tad insulting. I've been around hoops for a long time (longer than you've been alive) and I've ranted about this teams inconsistency... but that doesn't mean I'm unhappy with the results, a top 10 RPI, a national ranking, a beatdown of Arizona that made front page sports everywhere (in spite of next to no TV for it)... these are the results I hoped for at the onset of the season.

However there's not a BYU fan alive that isn't happy about 11-1 right now; if they are, they're lying (something you're becoming quite adept at; we'll see if you're equally as adept as apology when you realize your statement was a blatant lie).

[IowaCougar]

craigoscarson:

With very few exceptions, your posts are very well thought out, and I appreciate your insight. My opinion is that no-one should ever make accusations without being able to back them up. "I'm not going to dig through your posts" is a cop-out, and italics owes you an apology.

I might have been a little nervous last night, but I enjoyed seeing the Cougars win despite the laughable commentary by the Weber State radio team. I am definitely enjoying the ride.

[Wolverine]

I can hear it now...

"despite the fact that we shot so poorly tonight and struggled against the zone, I'll take the away victory..."

This team has some major issues to work on, folks.

Can put this post into this category for your post history?

Check my post history - all I have said TIME AND TIME again is that we are a good team

I'm not sure how saying our teams has some serious issues means we're not a good team.

Now that statement seems ironic IMHO...but maybe I'm wrong...I am sure there are many couples that have serious issues but are still a good couple, or many drug addicts that have serious issues but are still good drug addicts, or many Utards that have serious issues but are still good Utards. In my experience as a former player, and former high school coach now turned school admin, I have yet to see a team that had "serious" issues be considered a "good" team. I too have been annoyed at this post. I don't comment that often, but have been a lurker on this board as well as the old Cougar Blue board and the MWC boards for several years, and must say that I have noticed a similar negative pattern in your posting style Italics. I have no problem with your informed opinions, but your "chicken little the sky is falling" routine has grown stale. No doubt this team and individuals have areas in which to improve. I have no doubt that Coach Rose, the coaching staff, and the players themselves are acutely more aware of those shortcomings than any of us "fans" who follow the team. I also have now doubt that they will do all they can to improve in those areas so that you yourself, as well as all the rest of us true blue Cougar fans can sleep well at night. I for one am very impressed with this team who has in the last month or so traipsed all over the country from South Padre Island, TX, to Omaha, NE, to Glenns Falls, NY (via Albany), to Energy Solutions Arena, to Anaheim, CA, to Ogden, UT and only managed 1 loss to a UCLA team that was playing in the namesake tournament of the greatest coach in not just UCLA history, but the history of the college game itself, Coach John Wooden who had just passed away this past year, a UCLA team that would do everything in their power to honor Coach Wooden with a win, and yet we competed gallantly in that one loss and all you can do is call out this team with your "this team has some serious issues to work on, folks." comment. Seems to me like this reeks of the "pot calling the kettle black." As I stated before, I will enjoy this team's ride until the final curtain falls. Go Cougars!

[Italics]

craigoscarson:

With very few exceptions, your posts are very well thought out, and I appreciate your insight. My opinion is that no-one should ever make accusations without being able to back them up. "I'm not going to dig through your posts" is a cop-out, and italics owes you an apology.

I might have been a little nervous last night, but I enjoyed seeing the Cougars win despite the laughable commentary by the Weber State radio team. I am definitely enjoying the ride.

Glad you're enjoying the ride. As am I. Is "enjoying the ride" the new excuse for not understanding basketball all that well, though?

This is a sports forum, people are going to share their opinions/insights/support/frustrations regarding the team.

If you don't have any better retort than "well I'M enjoying the ride," just don't even bother. At least Craig usually backs up his opinions with logic - I doubt his feelings are hurt when I disagree with him on something, and I doubt he demands an apology.