Max Hall

[mcgregor]

I remember the first time I ever saw Max. It was a practice during his redshirt year. I vividly remember him rolling out right and toss a perfectly thrown pass without missing a step. He was more polished than John Beck, although at the time, John was locked up in a boot. At that time, I predicted great things from Max.

Flash forward to this year.

Max Hall has had two years to develop in game experience. He's probably made progress. Unfortunately, however, it seems that he really hasn't grown all that much over his tenure as a starting QB. When considering this, remember that Max has been afforded some great talent for support. Overall, he probably has a more talented offense this year than last.

Yet, he still gets flustered. He freezes up. He doesn't see the entire field.

I'm not saying there's a better QB in the stable--there isn't. This post is limited in scope to merely vocalizing a little frustration that a kid that came into the program so polished, had ample opportunity to refine his game, and has been surrounded with all the tools necessary, has seemingly failed to make any significant strides from his first few games as a Cougar.

Cheers.

mcgregor

[hawkwing]

mcgregor,

I appreciate this post, and I'll tell you why. So many are calling for Max's head that it's gotten absurd. On forums, at the games, pretty much all I hear right now is that Max is incapable of being a started at any other D1 program, yadda yadda. I don't think that is the case, which leads to almost too vigorous of a defense for him.

I remember his first year at the helm. The worry was that we would have such a tremendous drop-off after losing Beck, and here stepped in this cocky kid who backed up what he had to say on the field. The future looked very bright. It seems as if there wasn't a lot of growth out of Max, which is to me the really disappointing thing, but I also don't feel like there has been any regression as some fans claim.

BYU is playing with superior talent, which helps boost Max, but are we not also playing against better defenses? Certainly against better defenses than our QBs faced in the 80s and many times in the 90s.

I have a feeling that 5 years down the road the admiration for the winning-est QB in BYU history will be higher than it will be at the end of this season.

[Real.Men.Wear.Blue]

All the business about Max needing to be replaced is nonsense. The guy is a great QB, and he has led BYU to many solid wins. In terms of making mistakes, especially throwing INTs, his stats over the past 3 years suggest that he has regressed. The other problem with Max is that he does not play well in big games. He lays the hammer down against competition that BYU is supposed to beat. But when it comes to teams where BYU is not favored, Hall seems to always lay an egg. Oklahoma may be the one exception, but I believe that game was won largely by the defense (Max had two INTs).

[ProV1]

I wonder what the motivation is for the most vocal criticizers of Hall, Bronco, and Anae.

Do they think their negative words and actions will motivate Hall to do better?
Do they think Hall isn't aware interceptions are bad?
Do they think by being loud it will effect change?
Do they hate BYU and just want to scream at someone?
Do they somehow want to prove they were right - ie by yelling Hall sucks all the time, if Hall ever throws a pick they can say they told us so? (disregard the poor sentence structure)
Do they think their "tough love" will help Hall improve?
Do they seriously think they could throw the ball better? (There must be a few of those.)
Do they think they are being more "realistic" and "honest" as compared to the blue-begoggled?
Are they simply douches that yell are everybody, everywhere?
Does it feel good to bring/put others down? Do they feel better about themselves?

I want BYU to win every game, bust the BCS, ruin the system, humiliate Utah, advance the cause of the church, and so on. Why, then, would I ever yell at or boo these guys, my guys? Why would I show up to LES with the idea of being negative toward my team? I'm there to enjoy the atmosphere, cheer my team, eat a dog, spend time with my girls, and sing the fight song. What is my criticism going to bring?

[CAFB_04-12]

Considering how well Hall played his first year I think we all assumed he would improve dramatically each year. Perhaps his consistency is the same, but he's given us some great plays to talk about for years (4th and 18, BYU vs OU 2009, etc).

Oh, and nice place by the way!

[snoscythe]

I thought this was an interesting comparison today from Wrubell's CougarTracks:

5 games into the 1990 Heisman season, Ty Detmer was 162 out of 245 (66%) for 2197 yards, 14 TDs, 10 INT.
Yards per attempt: 9.0
Pass efficiency: 152.1
BYU was 4-1, having beaten Miami, and lost to Oregon.

--

5 games into the 2009 season, Max Hall is 104 out of 153 (68%) for 1403 yards, 11 TDs, 10 INT.
Yards per attempt: 9.2
Pass efficiency: 155.7
BYU is 4-1, having beaten Oklahoma, and lost to FSU."

--

Now, if you taken the comparison nakedly, you might think, "Hey, fans need to shut up and enjoy the ride--they expect too much." But, as with all statistics, there's a story behind the numbers.

Detmer's story? FIVE of the interceptions came in one game--the loss to Oregon. He threw two picks against SDSU, and UTEP, and one against Miami, zero against Wazzou.

Hall? He had 3 picks against FSU, two against Oklahoma, USU, and CSU, and one against Tulane.

Detmer's interception total seems to be inflated by one game in which he was trying to come from behind to win the game, which also applies to Hall's 3 pick performance against FSU, but otherwise, it seems to be par for the course for Hall to be giving the ball to the other team mulitple times a game.

The other problem with the 5 game analysis is that it ignores the last two games of last season where Hall had NINE turnovers. We aren't looking at a bad start with Hall--we are looking at the continuation of a trend.

So, in short--I agree with you McGregor. I don't think there is a better option for quarterback right now. The frustration is simply the fact that Max Hall 2009 is the same thing as, or possibly worse than, Max Hall 2007. I got off the Max Hall bus after the Utah game when he talked to the media about how he refused to watch the game film but instead just went and practiced harder. I'm sorry, but all the hard work in the world won't improve you when you fail to identify your weaknesses Max. While it was only one sentence to one reporter after one (very bad) game, this sentence told me all I need to know about Max Hall--I don't think he accepts the fact that he might be doing something wrong.

Hall is our guy, and he'll win games for us, but it is simply disappointing to watch a player make the same mistakes for three years ad nauseum.

[49erCoug]

Did anyone else think the Hall had a little more zip on his passes against UNLV? it seemed that way to me...

My complaint of Max is this... he has HAPPY feet.. and dances around a little too much at times.. I haven't noticed it as much the last couple games.. but at the begging of the year that is how it was..

[pjmuli]

Max Hall has had two years to develop in game experience. He's probably made progress. Unfortunately, however, it seems that he really hasn't grown all that much over his tenure as a starting QB. When considering this, remember that Max has been afforded some great talent for support. Overall, he probably has a more talented offense this year than last.

Yet, he still gets flustered. He freezes up. He doesn't see the entire field.

I am a relatively ardent defender of Max Hall. All things considered, I think he is one of the best quarterbacks in BYU history. However, I echo the sentiments of this quote as the most disappointing aspect of his career...the failure to make a huge senior jump. Even without the senior jump, Hall is one of the best in school history...but with a jump, Hall would be an elite qb in BYU history. He still has time, but I do question that he will make much improvement.

At the start of this year, I felt Hall would perform in such a way that he would be the best MWC quarterback of all time - passing Alex Smith. That seems hard to fathom now.

There is a part of me that really questions why I am disappointed with a quarterback who is 26-6 as a starter. I don't care what kind of talent he has, that is a remarkable record...and I find it hard to compare records with previous BYU quarterbacks because the current MWC is much more difficult than any of the WAC conference configurations back in the day. Bottom line...Shiede / Nielsen / Wilson / McMahon / Young / Bosco / Detmer did NOT have to face the level of competition this BYU team faces in TCU and Utah each year.

If Hall can make a significant jump...and we have a very strong finish to this season...I think he qualifies to be grouped among the elites (McMahon / Detmer / Young)...otherwise, he is the next tier down (better than Sarkisian / Wilson / Beck, etc).

[Mars]

Did anyone else think the Hall had a little more zip on his passes against UNLV? it seemed that way to me...

Yes, it did appear that way. The REASON being, he threw a lot more shorter passes in the UNLV game. Including tosses to the RBs (which were virtually ignored prior in the season; Tonga especially looked good here).

1- Max doesn't have the arm strength John Beck did. Shorter passes certainly help him.
2- This is also a large part of why Max didn't throw an INT. And when he did throw it long, it looked like he was coached to overthrow the ball a bit so the WR may be able to speed burn to it, but the DB has no chance at all. Long bomb completions go down, but turnovers drop drastically.