BYU fan questions institution's commitment to big time--but what about them?

[cougarapologist]

Your statements answer your questions as to why leaving the conference was a mistake. Memphis lost big, but IN THE COTTON BOWL with a payout in the millions. BSU only went to THE LAS VEGAS BOWL and played a Power 5 team. BYU's last three bowl games? the Poinsettia against Wyoming, the Potato against Western Michigan, and the Hawaii against Hawaii. The best we do is meaningless (both in stature and in financial payout) bowls against MWC and MAC runner-ups. In fact only twice in the last NINE bowls have we played a Power 5 team.

Wouldn't we be better off competing with Boise and Utah State for an MWC Championship that brings with it a shot at a Power 5 team in a more significant bowl game? Playing November games that matter rather than begging for Liberty and UMass to schedule us in that part of the year? Joining with BSU in their power play in the MWC to get the right to negotiate with ESPN on TV rights?

Why do recruits pick Boise State? Why do they pick BYU? If all else is equal, what football motivation does an LDS recruit have to pick BYU? Right now, little or none. We have to provide something to re-incentivize the best LDS football players to choose BYU. Independence has failed at that. We don't have a Power 5 option to choose. So take the best of bad options: give the kids something to play for by joining a conference.

Independence succeeded in only one way: we may have earned more money on TV rights than we could have otherwise. Certainly that is true. But is that the reason we have football at all--to make money? If so, kill the program altogether. If it has a purpose other than that, then something other than the status quo must be done.

I don't like that our best option may be to go back to the MWC. I would far prefer an invite to the BIG 12. But it isn't happening.

[YNot]

Your statements answer your questions as to why leaving the conference was a mistake. Memphis lost big, but IN THE COTTON BOWL with a payout in the millions. BSU only went to THE LAS VEGAS BOWL and played a Power 5 team. BYU's last three bowl games? the Poinsettia against Wyoming, the Potato against Western Michigan, and the Hawaii against Hawaii. The best we do is meaningless (both in stature and in financial payout) bowls against MWC and MAC runner-ups. In fact only twice in the last NINE bowls have we played a Power 5 team.

Wouldn't we be better off competing with Boise and Utah State for an MWC Championship that brings with it a shot at a Power 5 team in a more significant bowl game? Playing November games that matter rather than begging for Liberty and UMass to schedule us in that part of the year? Joining with BSU in their power play in the MWC to get the right to negotiate with ESPN on TV rights?

Why do recruits pick Boise State? Why do they pick BYU? If all else is equal, what football motivation does an LDS recruit have to pick BYU? Right now, little or none. We have to provide something to re-incentivize the best LDS football players to choose BYU. Independence has failed at that. We don't have a Power 5 option to choose. So take the best of bad options: give the kids something to play for by joining a conference.

Independence succeeded in only one way: we may have earned more money on TV rights than we could have otherwise. Certainly that is true. But is that the reason we have football at all--to make money? If so, kill the program altogether. If it has a purpose other than that, then something other than the status quo must be done.

I don't like that our best option may be to go back to the MWC. I would far prefer an invite to the BIG 12. But it isn't happening.

The G5's NY6 bid is fool's gold. How often would BYU have earned the G5's NY6 bowl bid over the last 6 years? How often would we have even been in the MWC championship game? We're 2-4 versus Boise State and 3-3 versus Utah State in that stretch. Since 2014, we've also lost regular season games to SDSU, Fresno State, and Nevada (and ECU, NIU, UMass, Toledo, USF).

2015 and 2019 are the two possible seasons where BYU would have been in contention for the MWC championship and have an actual shot to earn the NY6 bid. We would not have received the NY6 bid in 2015, ahead of AAC champ Houston (12-1)...and this year, we lost to Toledo, USF, and SDSU. No way we get the NY6 bid ahead of Memphis...or even Appalachian State...and that's assuming we somehow win the MWC.

So, the hope of the NY6 bowl is absolutely the wrong focus.

*It's sort of ironic that our last two bowl opponents have actually played in NY6/BCS bowl games within the last decade. How did those big bowl games help Hawaii and Western Michigan?*

Boise State's *big bowl game* was against a team that BYU *hosted* in Provo this year...when they were actually ranked and looking like a PAC 12 North front-runner....Think about that.

BYU has made the decision to play a more difficult and much more prestigious schedule than what the MWC can offer. Independence also helps BYU make more money, but more importantly helps the team enjoy better exposure and provides better access for our nationwide fan base. BYU's current mediocrity has little to do with independence and much more to do with the coaching staff.

I do agree that independence has failed to give us the bump in recruiting that I expected. I truly did think our schedules would bring more quality recruits. While the schedule has helped to land transfer players like Ty'Son this past year, I thought it would have a great impact. Without a true P5 affiliation, winning games and reaching the top-25 seem to have a stronger correlation in recruiting.

[snoscythe]

None of these hypotheticals matter for a program that currently loses at home to UMass-caliber opponents.

[cougarapologist]

Maybe a better way to look at this is the following:
On each of the following, which is better, Independence or MWC? (my opinion)
Revenue: Independence
Home game Attendance: MWC
Recruiting: MWC (agree this has some to do with Coaches, but Mendenhall coached in both and was better early)
Exposure: Independence (although fading each November to obscurity makes this a harder analysis)
Access for nationwide fan base: Independence
Bowl games: MWC
Schedules: Independence (except the late year fade)

Current score: Independence 4, MWC 3. Honestly, not the score I had anticipated. Hmmm.....

Any other factors we should add to this list?

[ABYUFAN]

Maybe a better way to look at this is the following:
On each of the following, which is better, Independence or MWC? (my opinion)
Home game Attendance: MWC

Are you suggesting that dropping Michigan State, Missouri and Houston from next year's schedule would result in increased attendance?

[cougarapologist]

No, but looking at average attendance over the last years of MWC and the years of independence, the MWC years were better attended. This year may have stopped that downward trend, but as a whole, having meaningful games in November offsets any loss in earlier game attendance.

When's the last time we had a full stadium late in the year: when there were conference games to play.

[Fido]

No, but looking at average attendance over the last years of MWC and the years of independence, the MWC years were better attended. This year may have stopped that downward trend, but as a whole, having meaningful games in November offsets any loss in earlier game attendance.

When's the last time we had a full stadium late in the year: when there were conference games to play.

Can't evaluate attendance in a vacuum like that. If you look at the overall trends for college football attendance, college football attendance as a whole was down. It is not reasonable to think that if BYU stayed in the MWC that they would be bucking the overall college football trend.

[Sharper]

Haven't seen it really mentioned, but the biggest problem with staying in the MWC was the inability to watch games on TV. That's what fans need and it also happens to be one of the main reasons for the team's existence (exposure).

With their latest TV contract, BSU (even with their bonus money MWC deal) is probably getting less than half what BYU's ESPN contract is worth, plus BYU gets much better exposure in terms of channel choice. The only time you can't easily watch a live BYU football game is when they're playing away and the destination school has a lousy TV agreement.

That exposure also plays into recruiting. Who wants to play on ESPN or ABC in front of the whole country, vs. being lucky to be able for their friends and family to pay to stream some games?

The main issue with independence has been that BYU hasn't been able to put a consistent quality of play out on the field. Beating a few of what should've been cupcakes this year would've seen us in the top 25 because of the difficulty of schedule combined with visibility and record. Without consistently winning more games against lower tier schools, it doesn't matter what conference BYU is in.

[Fido]

No, but looking at average attendance over the last years of MWC and the years of independence, the MWC years were better attended. This year may have stopped that downward trend, but as a whole, having meaningful games in November offsets any loss in earlier game attendance.

When's the last time we had a full stadium late in the year: when there were conference games to play.

Can't evaluate attendance in a vacuum like that. If you look at the overall trends for college football attendance, college football attendance as a whole was down. It is not reasonable to think that if BYU stayed in the MWC that they would be bucking the overall college football trend.

From 2014 to ’18, attendance across the FBS fell by 7.6%. Last year, on average, 41,856 fans went to games. That’s the lowest turnout since 1996; even major programs like Ohio State, Virginia Tech and Ole Miss suffered declines of greater than 5%. https://www.si.com/college/2020/01/10/c ... cline-ncaa

[Gunk]

BYU's biggest problem is a lack of winning. Win, and the problems are solved. Recruiting increases. Revenue increases. Fans increase and stop whining.

BYU's biggest barrier to winning is Kalani Sitake. Not independence. Not scheduling. Not the honor code. Not academics.

We lost to cupcakes because Satake didn't prepare his team or show up for work. We lost to Utah because as Wilson said, the team was still figuring out how to line up and where to go. We lost to SDSU because the coaches didn't game plan for it per Bushman's comments. Poor decisions across the board. The QB that beat BSU is benched for the QB that has more interceptions than TDs. We lost because our coach didn't do his job and can't make the tough calls.

Want to win and win now, fix Sitake or get rid of him.