Unga officially finished at BYU according to 1280 & Jay Drew

[imuakahuku]

Jonnylingo - I have your back. I'm in the camp that believes the honor code shouldn't apply to football players (at least for stuff that wouldn't get you kicked out of other schools...) The personalities required to be dominant on the football field aren't necessarily in line with those of people who can give a good fireside. I will never agree with trading wins for having players that suck but make good missionaries. Just teach these kids how to be good individuals. Don't hold them to a higher standard than you would most other students (which I believe they are doing here to Harvey). I realize the internet and 24 hour sports talk radio have changed things, but under LaVel this would have all been handled internally and no one would have ever known about it. I don't think that anyone would say that LaVel didn't do things the right way.

Yep, that way we would still have Kessman on the team since he would be allowed to be living with his girlfriend. And all those db's that took advantage of the teenage girl. BTW, does "at least for stuff that wouldn't get you kicked out of other schools..." mean? Any other school e.g. "such and such school didn't kick so and so out so that behavior is not dismissable" or "well he might have been kicked out by some of the other schools" - just trying to understand the criteria. "What? He was doing what with little Johnny? Well, that behavior is acceptable (and probably endorsed ) at Stanford and Cal so I guess it's okay here since he is a football player".
Yep, lets do away with personal responsibility, morality, and the HC for football players, well I guess we should make that for all athletes- remember title 9 and that word "fair"?

The only argument is why until Jan? Has he been doing this since 2006? Was he caught and about to be turned in? What were the circumstances that led to the decision.
Since we don't know lets just throw away the HC for athletes because people like Detmer, Hall, Beck, Young, Mili, Jorgensen, Collie, Oats, Bosco, Reynolds, Vakapuna, Denny, Morrison, Lewis, etc just can't be good athletes and mission worthy at the same time.

So in short I disagree. The HC is for all, I would however, like to know the reasons for why Jan and not Sept but I doubt he will give his reasons publically.

[stuckinbig10country]

This is actually one of the things that LaVell couldn't have swept under cover, and to think so is just absurd. This is just too big. Also, this is not Harvey's first offense against the honor code. He had to delay entrance for some similar reasons.

A couple positives from this to look at. Everyone else on the team has no excuses. If they will not allow Harvey back, don't think that 2nd string punt return team player can think he can get away with it. Also, it also shows that even if you try and do the right thing after doing something wrong, there are still consequences from the original actions.

And to think that athletes should be under any different rules than the general student body is wrong. In fact, the most visible people in any organization are generally held to higher standards than the masses.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[jonnylingo]

For the record, I do think the honor code should apply to football players. we are byu, we are different, i am okay with that. What bugs me though is how hard they are coming down on him. they are ruining his career. while he made a moral mistake that also happens to violate the honor code, i don't think they should punish him by saying you can't play football, especially after what he has done for the university football wise.

what i suspect here is that they wouldn't do it because he refused to marry her. I can understand that, but it still bugs me. the church should take what actions that it feels are necessary to help him with his salvation and he should have a punishemtn for violating the honor code but not the punishment he is receiving.

long story short. honor code violation punishments should be less severe than they are. that is just my opinion though.

[snoscythe]

I have to say, knowing as little as I do, I agree with the decision. They have removed football as a factor in Harvey's repentance process.

This is a young man who has been down the road before. If the violation is what most suspect, this will be Harvey's second rodeo with this problem. That is why I have suspected from day one that he would not return...the second time around is a bit sterner.

Now, when Harvey goes to talk to his bishop, he isn't trying to rush the process simply to get back into school and back onto the field.

Keep in mind that BYU has left the door open for him to come back in the Winter and finish his degree then, and with as few credits as he needs, one semester will do the trick as far as education goes.

I agree with the punishment because (a) he broke a promise he made, and (b) it is putting his eternal future ahead of the next few years.

I know the naysayers will come on here and lambast the Honor Code as being too strict or asking more than the commandments, but that is something Harvey and each person agreeing to the Honor Code should have taken into consideration before they told their ecclesiastical representative that the would keep the Honor Code rather than lamely offering it as an excuse after the fact. If it's too much or too strict, wear red.

The fact that someone might miss out on career opportunities because of a punishment they agreed to be subject to shouldn't be part of the calculus in imposing punishment--it should be part of the decision making calculus of the individual before they break their agreement. Harvey knew the risks, but he made bad decisions nonetheless. He shouldn't be able to hide behind the potential he has put in jeopardy to avoid the consequences he knew would follow.

[bostoncoug]

Why are so many people blaming the honor code? Harvey is the one who messed up, not once but TWICE!!! He knew the ramifications, but still went against the honor code. Harvey messed up his own life and career, not the honor code. Remember, we are free to choose our actions, but we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. I wish Harvey all the best in his personal, professional and most importantly his spiritual life. It's sad to see his carrer cut a year short.

[gmj81]

Is his loss a big one for your season, or is there a comparable back behind him that can get the same production?

There is a true freshman, Josh Quezada, that we hope will give us the same strengths that Unga brought. But I don't think anyone is expecting him to produce in 2010 at the same level as Unga would have as a senior.

So I guess in answer to your question, no there isn't another running back that will give us the same production this season. Look for a lot of running back by committee until someone establishes themselves as the key ball carrier.


Jonnylingo - I have your back. I'm in the camp that believes the honor code shouldn't apply to football players (at least for stuff that wouldn't get you kicked out of other schools...) The personalities required to be dominant on the football field aren't necessarily in line with those of people who can give a good fireside. I will never agree with trading wins for having players that suck but make good missionaries. Just teach these kids how to be good individuals. Don't hold them to a higher standard than you would most other students (which I believe they are doing here to Harvey). I realize the internet and 24 hour sports talk radio have changed things, but under LaVel this would have all been handled internally and no one would have ever known about it. I don't think that anyone would say that LaVel didn't do things the right way.

I'm sure you are just upset about this news (as we all are) but seriously that's one of the most stupid comments I've read on here in a while.

First of all, Unga's first season statistically was his best so I don't think you can necessarily discount what Q could accomplish. I would say that Q was the better athlete and back coming out of high school and he'll have already had eight months with the team by the time the season rolls around. Kariya and DiLuigi have shown that they can step up without Harvey (OU and Tulane) and both will be just that much better this year. I'm not saying that any one individual will replace what Harvey would have done for us next year but we certainly have able bodies who collectively can shoulder the load.

Now, as for the second part of your comment, I don't know where to start. Why should athletes be treated any differently at BYU or any school than any other student on campus? And BYU is what it is, a private religious institution with an honor code that ALL students have to agree to abide by or face removal from the school. Harvey should get no different treatment than any other student at BYU. He knew what was expected and what the consequences are for any slip ups. No ignorance can be plead in this case. I'm as upset about this as any and don't think the honor code is always enforced the way it should be but blaming BYU or wishing for changes to be made to the system is not only pointless but stupid. The success that BYU has seen of late is directly due to Bronco's embracing the uniqueness of BYU and its honor code. We saw where the other way got us with Crowton. I think it was totally standup of Harvey to do what he did knowing that he already missed the draft and very well could end up missing his last year with the team. He Credit him for doing the right thing regardless of the consequences. I will always have fond memories of Harvey and consider him the best RB to ever don a BYU uniform. None of this diminishes him any in my eyes. We all make mistakes and we all must be held accountable, athletes or not.

[urroner]

I can tell you that this hurts a lot. I am ticked. BYU is lame. Seriously, ruin his career over this. Is there no compassion?

First of all, I'm upset also that he isn't coming back, but I don't blame BYU.

It seems to me that you are saying that Unga's career is ruined because of the actions of BYU or its policies. I disagree with that. It wasn't BYU that might have ruined his career, if it is ruined, it's Unga's actions that might have ruined it.

There is compassion, but there also has to be justice also. As opposed to the current trend about "forgiving and forgetting," there is no place in the scriptures where it ever said that. Forgiveness sometimes entails forgetting the actions, but sometimes it doesn't. It's a matter of trust here. Forgiving somebody doesn't mean that you have to still trust them and any relationship is built upon trust. Was it BYU that "destroyed" that trust or was it Unga?

We have the freedom to choose our actions, we don't have the freedom to choose the consequences of our actions.

[urroner]

Remember, we are free to choose our actions, but we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions

Great minds think alike!

[urroner]

This is a young man who has been down the road before. If the violation is what most suspect, this will be Harvey's second rodeo with this problem. That is why I have suspected from day one that he would not return...the second time around is a bit sterner.

From what I have learnt in my dealings with High Councils and Bishops, the first time is treated very differently than the second time. I know several members, practically all of them unmarried, who on the first time was put on probation and were usually back in full fellowship within six months or so, but the second time, if there was a second time, it involved excommunication most of the time and then it was two years before the person was back into full fellowship, sometimes even longer, one year before rebaptism and then another year before temple rights were returned.

[hawkwing]

I support the decision, as long as it is the same decision that likely would have been made in my case if I, or any other non-famous student. I feel bad for Harvey, but like others have said, he made his bed, and now he has to sleep in it. I think he'll make a team in the NFL and have some success, and I think he'll look back at his BYU years with fondness and happiness in the end.