Why We Lost

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IowaCougar
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Re: Why We Lost

Post by IowaCougar »

A couple of comments from someone who doesn't pretend to be football expert:

Even the announcers mentioned that Harbaugh was playing every play "as if they knew exactly what the play call was". No accusation - but they did seem to know exactly what was coming at them.

From the part of the game I was able to watch, I saw that the main method used by their defense was to get hold of the BYU receivers and never let go. Pretty hard to get open when they've got you wrapped up. What was mentioned by some of the BYU players later was the need for them to be tougher and more physical in those situations. So if there is no such penalty as holding, find a way to get away and get open, rather than just looking for a flag.

I think as tough as the experience was, it will make the team more determined going forward.


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Re: Why We Lost

Post by redneckjedi »

IowaCougar wrote:A couple of comments from someone who doesn't pretend to be football expert:

Even the announcers mentioned that Harbaugh was playing every play "as if they knew exactly what the play call was". No accusation - but they did seem to know exactly what was coming at them.

From the part of the game I was able to watch, I saw that the main method used by their defense was to get hold of the BYU receivers and never let go. Pretty hard to get open when they've got you wrapped up. What was mentioned by some of the BYU players later was the need for them to be tougher and more physical in those situations. So if there is no such penalty as holding, find a way to get away and get open, rather than just looking for a flag.

I think as tough as the experience was, it will make the team more determined going forward.
There was a great tweet from Johnny Harline, saying that his receiving career took off once he started playing like there is no such thing as holding or PI. In press man coverage, the defender will try and jam you at the line. This is legal, and why you need to be physical as a receiver - your first job is to defeat the jam. If you do, you can get open on a man barring route like a slant or curl. If you don't, your timing will be off. If he continues contact down the field, you don't throw up your hands and whine - you force the issue by either shoving him back right as you cut (Dennis Pitta was a matter at this) or running hard, crisp routes so that the ref sees your jersey stretch, the DB has to take you down, or you actually get open and catch a ball. If your QB has time (ours didn't) you burn him with a double move.

If you fail to do these things, no ref is going to bail you out with a flag.

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Re: Why We Lost

Post by hawkwing »

redneckjedi wrote:
IowaCougar wrote:A couple of comments from someone who doesn't pretend to be football expert:

Even the announcers mentioned that Harbaugh was playing every play "as if they knew exactly what the play call was". No accusation - but they did seem to know exactly what was coming at them.

From the part of the game I was able to watch, I saw that the main method used by their defense was to get hold of the BYU receivers and never let go. Pretty hard to get open when they've got you wrapped up. What was mentioned by some of the BYU players later was the need for them to be tougher and more physical in those situations. So if there is no such penalty as holding, find a way to get away and get open, rather than just looking for a flag.

I think as tough as the experience was, it will make the team more determined going forward.
There was a great tweet from Johnny Harline, saying that his receiving career took off once he started playing like there is no such thing as holding or PI. In press man coverage, the defender will try and jam you at the line. This is legal, and why you need to be physical as a receiver - your first job is to defeat the jam. If you do, you can get open on a man barring route like a slant or curl. If you don't, your timing will be off. If he continues contact down the field, you don't throw up your hands and whine - you force the issue by either shoving him back right as you cut (Dennis Pitta was a matter at this) or running hard, crisp routes so that the ref sees your jersey stretch, the DB has to take you down, or you actually get open and catch a ball. If your QB has time (ours didn't) you burn him with a double move.

If you fail to do these things, no ref is going to bail you out with a flag.

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Let me add that it's important for the QB to recognize this as well and throw the ball in a way that highlights the receiver couldn't get to it solely because he was being held.


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Re: Why We Lost

Post by redneckjedi »

TheDean wrote:
redneckjedi wrote:
TheDean wrote:
vancouvercougar wrote:Harbaugh did not need our playbook. He had two and a half games of film to watch.
So did UCLA who had 2 games to watch and Boise St. who had 2 years and 1 game and Nebraska who had all of the last 2 years of game film with Taysom to watch yet BYU still averaged 400+ yards of offense in each of those games despite how overly predictable it is. So how could Michigan whose defense was pathetic in its first 3 games suddenly become the second coming of defenses seemingly overnight??? Even as I have pointed out that BYU's offense is overly predictable by a considerable margin. There is still a margin of error in which the defense would miss an assignment, blow a coverage or just plain guess wrong but Michigan's defense made no mistake at all not even when the 2nd and 3rd string defense came in during the 4th quarter and are more error prone than the 1st string from lack of reps. Michigan's defense still was able to make the right call. You look at the accuracy in which Michigan defensive calls were correct it was astronomically high (around 100%) far more than can be accounted for by simply watching 3 games of game film of an overly predictable offense.

If BYU offense had say 10 plays in it for simplicity sake. There would be 10 plays that could be called in 10 different orders or 100 player per 3 downs that would have to be stopped which equates to 300 different plays a series to have to defend. The odds of Michigan or anyone else could be as accurate in knowing which plays to call to defend those plays and when to call them is astronomically low yet Michigan knew precisely which defensive play to call and when to call it and at such an accurate rate requires a lot more knowledge than can be gleaned from the mere watching of game tapes no matter how predictable the offense is.

Yet BYU's offense performed well against 3 teams that would crush Michigan defense and UCLA's stadium holds at least as many fans as Michigan's stadium and Nebraska’s stadium held 95,000 fans and UCLA and Nebraska's fans were twice as loud.

Which begs the question if Michigan can get that kind info from watching film from 3 games of an overly predictable offense then why couldn't Nebraska who had 2 years of game film of that same overly predicable offense with Taysom running it and UCLA who had 2 games of game film to do it with and Boise St. who had game film of 2 years and 1 game to do it with and why no one in the last 3 years with this overly predictable offense has been able to get the kind of info to defend BYUs offense as effectivily as Michigan did???

Which also begs the question is why wasn't Michigan able to glean that kind of information from watching game film of it first 3 opponents as accurately as they did from watching BYU's game film???

Sorry but the only way Michigan could have had the kind of defensive turn around and to be as accurate as they were in there defensive play calling is if they had BYU play book and with enough time to practice with it.
You must have forgotten that football is a physical game. It's not Harbaugh vs. Bronco in rock, paper, scissors. If your receivers don't separate and your line can't hold blocks, Jim Harbaugh could be calling the plays from the bathroom using a dartboard while blindfolded, and we still wouldn't score a point.

Michigan didn't blow a coverage because the coverage was always "man," and they always stuck to their guy like glue. The whole defense simply did what Bronco always preaches - play assignment sound. When you do that, win your 1-on-1 matchups, and don't miss tackles, you just win. Period.
No I didn't forget, but again Nebraska, Boise St., and UCLA were every bit as physical as Michigan. If your statement that Harbaugh could be calling plays from the bathroom using a dartboard while blindfolded, and we still wouldn’t score a point was true then please explain how #6 UCLA, Nebraska, and Boise St. all of which are better defensively than Michigan weren't able to do it? Just because Michigan has Harbaugh as it HC isn't a good enough explanation for the kind of D they played against BYU because why didn't he do the same thing in Michigan’s first 3 games???

Boise St and UCLA also ran man coverage yet BYU still moved the ball and scored. No Michigan defense was far too accurate all game long in their defensive play calling and in their ability to know where to send their defenders. Remember BYU takes an average of 9 seconds in which to call a play and run it and for the defense to respond as quickly and accurately as Michigan did requires the Michigan DC to either have clairvoyance or BYUs play book in advance of the game. Period.
1) Michigan has a better defense than all of these teams. Look it up.
2) You're using last year's stats on the play speed. We're taking plenty of time every snap. Hence the 40 minutes of possession at UCLA.
3) You're ignoring the 1-on-1 matchup issue. No team we've played ran tight man coverage snap to whistle like Michigan did, or had the big, physical DBs to do it with. UCLA's best corner was injured, and his inexperienced backup was repeatedly victimized by perfectly called man-beating routes. Nebraska played plenty of zone, especially with Hill in the
game, because man opens you up to QB runs more.
4) Michigan's D probably faced fresher, more physical receivers than ours. Utah's in particular would be used to handsy, physical defense, because that's how their own defense plays.
5) It's not the play calls or the coaches when it comes to receivers getting open - it's the matchups. You missed the point with the dartboard joke. It could have been a monkey in that bathroom.
6) The leap of logic required to believe that good man coverage is possible only through advanced knowledge of every play, and therefore conclude Harbaugh MUST have cheated by having our plays AND stealing our signals is similar to that required by those who believe the lunar landing was staged, 9/11 was an inside job, or that a tinfoil hat will protect you from the black helicopters and their mind control devices. Don't hang out in that crowd.

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Re: Why We Lost

Post by Cougs_Rule »

Dean, Dude, you are delusional. Multiple posts above have irrefutable facts. Unlike your insistent opinions based on conjecture and stomping your feet. I get why you are making rediculous claims. What else could explain the horrible beat down. But just take one fact--Michigans DBs were taller and bigger than any of the teams we played. They probably held more and got away with more. But the size is irrefutable. But if you insist, go ahead and look up just the DBs for each team and compare.


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Re: Why We Lost

Post by Brayden Green »

The Dean,
Have you never watched a Robert Anae coached offense? This type of absolute blanketing happens every year. We get one this bad about every 1.3 years. See, TCU in 09, BSU in 13, and many, many others. There is 1quarter or 1 half in each game where we do nothing on offense. Do we let them look at our playbook for a quarter and then make them give it back? Of course not. Good coaches look at what is happening on the field and adjust. We don't have a good offensive coordinator, and he doesn't adjust to what he is given. It was very clear that Michigan was going to make Tanner throw short and not have a chance to look downfield from early on. We have a dummy coordinator that didn't take advantages of the vast openings on offenae.

That is whyAnae is not, and will never be, the guy to take BYU to new levels of success. He and a tough Bronco defense can only get us 7 - 8 wins against this type of schedule. We should be 0-4 or 1-3 right now because of bad play calling, but fortunately we are only 2-2.

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Re: Why We Lost

Post by SpiffCoug »

Here is why we lost: Michigan is a VERY good defensive team.

Today, Maryland's quarterbacks have combined to go 10 of 35 for 76 yards with 0 TDs and 3 INTs 28.6% complete. That's a PER of 29.67.

That makes Mangum's game last week look quite good by comparison.

Mangum was 12 of 28 for 55 yards with 0 TDs and 0 INTs, 42.9% complete for a 59.36 PER.


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Re: Why We Lost

Post by Wolverine »

SpiffCoug wrote:Here is why we lost: Michigan is a VERY good defensive team.

Today, Maryland's quarterbacks have combined to go 10 of 35 for 76 yards with 0 TDs and 3 INTs 28.6% complete. That's a PER of 29.67.

That makes Mangum's game last week look quite good by comparison.

Mangum was 12 of 28 for 55 yards with 0 TDs and 0 INTs, 42.9% complete for a 59.36 PER.
Two straight shutouts regardless of the opponent is pretty impressive. That Michigan defensei is he real deal.

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