Rob Porter

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Ddawg
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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Ddawg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:09 am

BroncoBot wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:39 pm
Ddawg wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:34 pm
In todays political climate, accusations are made, lives are destroyed. Rob Porter denies the accusation in the strongest terms. Where does the truth lie? Certainly not in a hit job internet piece. Due process? A thing of the past.
To have both Exes come out the way they did, it sure doesn't help his denials. But you're right, mere accusation are all the rage right now. Very difficult to prove one way or another. and if an ex has an axe to grind, your career could be over.
We're certainly entering witch hunt territory with the abuse/assault accusations.
You know, the reason both these men resigned so quickly was to avoid the guaranteed chorus of liberal politicians and MSM howling hyena's. It's a mess and no win situation. You resign and walk away - period. You cannot win. You cannot defend. You cannot clear your name. You cannot get your reputation back. When does objective truth become important? It doesn't.

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Re: Rob Porter

Post by BoiseBYU » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:35 am

Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.

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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Ddawg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:24 pm

BoiseBYU wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:35 am
Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.
Interesting perspective. Curious, how many people have you arrested for Spousal abuse? How many investigations for Spousal abuse have you personally conducted?

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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Mars » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:03 am

That's a dumb response.
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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Ddawg » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:47 am

Mars wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:03 am
That's a dumb response.
Yours is vapid. How much experience do you have investigating real spousal abuse? Just curious. Let's see you side step and soft shoe around the question.

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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Mars » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:34 am

I wonder how many people on the average jury are criminal experts. It's stupid to assume that is needed to judge guilt.
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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Ddawg » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:49 am

Mars wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:34 am
I wonder how many people on the average jury are criminal experts. It's stupid to assume that is needed to judge guilt.
Another shallow, vapid response. The point is, you have no professional experience dealing with or investigating spousal abuse. Yet you are quick to pass strong judgements. What a shock.

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Re: Rob Porter

Post by Mars » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:21 am

You just don't get it.
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Re: Rob Porter

Post by BoiseBYU » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:24 am

Ddawg wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:24 pm
BoiseBYU wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:35 am
Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.
Interesting perspective. Curious, how many people have you arrested for Spousal abuse? How many investigations for Spousal abuse have you personally conducted?
The last time you and I had a discussion, you ended up calling me names. I think the moderators had to put you in time out zone to calm down. So I am not interested in really engaging with you. But the issue of abuse is deeply troubling to me and I am willing to respond even if you end up again going the route of name calling.
First off, I am not a policeman. But I have helped a family try to persuade the police that their daughter was raped. They chose to disbelieve them. Six months later, the rapist viciously assaulted another woman and, after raping her, strangled her to death. If the police had considered the daughter, perhaps a woman would still be alive. I have appeared in court helping battered women obtain restraining orders against husbands and boy friends, who have hit them and their children. One case involved an LDS man who believed his temple marriage authorized him to have sex with his wife any where any time and at his pleasure. At the hearing the woman literally shook with fear and it took all we could do to keep her from bolting. In my church role I have been in the hospital trying to comfort a battered woman, trying to assuage her fear that no one would believe her and that there was no one who'd stand up for her. In short, I have had my share of dealing with abuse in the courts, with police, in hospitals, in homes, and elsewhere. I know something of that which I speak.
I am a believer in due process when it comes to the Government exercising its power against an individual. I believe that in a court of law a person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. BUT presumed innocent does not mean innocent and so when a woman alleges abuse, it is entirely appropriate to consider the allegation. I have also dealt with sexual assault allegations that proved not to be true. I have assisted male students facing possible school expulsion as a result of an allegation of assault. So I am not naive enough to believe that every allegation ever made is true. That is why we need to consider the allegations and their merits. Some have great merit; some do not. In the stories we have seen so far--the Donald Trumps, the Bill Clintons, the Roy Moores, the Harvey Weinsteins, the Steve Wynns and the Rob Porters, the public evidence is powerful--there is contemporaneous corroboration, photos, and multiple reports from multiple people alleging similar facts. The evidence is quite credible, the denials notwithstanding.
So that is where I am and where I stand. I frankly find it appalling that people like Sen. Hatch would call the ex-wives of Rob Porter "politically motivated, morally bankrupt character assassins that would attempt to sully a man's good name." Good name my ass. This man may have been a good White House secretary, but he was a violent brute of a man. These women had everything to lose, including being defamed by the Senator and President Trump and others for reporting what happened to them. The photos don't lie; the restraining order doesn't lie; the contemporaneous accounts don't lie. Senator Hatch shamed himself.

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Re: Rob Porter

Post by ABYUFAN » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:45 am

BoiseBYU wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:24 am
Ddawg wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:24 pm
BoiseBYU wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:35 am
Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.
Interesting perspective. Curious, how many people have you arrested for Spousal abuse? How many investigations for Spousal abuse have you personally conducted?
The last time you and I had a discussion, you ended up calling me names. I think the moderators had to put you in time out zone to calm down. So I am not interested in really engaging with you. But the issue of abuse is deeply troubling to me and I am willing to respond even if you end up again going the route of name calling.
First off, I am not a policeman. But I have helped a family try to persuade the police that their daughter was raped. They chose to disbelieve them. Six months later, the rapist viciously assaulted another woman and, after raping her, strangled her to death. If the police had considered the daughter, perhaps a woman would still be alive. I have appeared in court helping battered women obtain restraining orders against husbands and boy friends, who have hit them and their children. One case involved an LDS man who believed his temple marriage authorized him to have sex with his wife any where any time and at his pleasure. At the hearing the woman literally shook with fear and it took all we could do to keep her from bolting. In my church role I have been in the hospital trying to comfort a battered woman, trying to assuage her fear that no one would believe her and that there was no one who'd stand up for her. In short, I have had my share of dealing with abuse in the courts, with police, in hospitals, in homes, and elsewhere. I know something of that which I speak.
I am a believer in due process when it comes to the Government exercising its power against an individual. I believe that in a court of law a person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. BUT presumed innocent does not mean innocent and so when a woman alleges abuse, it is entirely appropriate to consider the allegation. I have also dealt with sexual assault allegations that proved not to be true. I have assisted male students facing possible school expulsion as a result of an allegation of assault. So I am not naive enough to believe that every allegation ever made is true. That is why we need to consider the allegations and their merits. Some have great merit; some do not. In the stories we have seen so far--the Donald Trumps, the Bill Clintons, the Roy Moores, the Harvey Weinsteins, the Steve Wynns and the Rob Porters, the public evidence is powerful--there is contemporaneous corroboration, photos, and multiple reports from multiple people alleging similar facts. The evidence is quite credible, the denials notwithstanding.
So that is where I am and where I stand. I frankly find it appalling that people like Sen. Hatch would call the ex-wives of Rob Porter "politically motivated, morally bankrupt character assassins that would attempt to sully a man's good name." Good name my ass. This man may have been a good White House secretary, but he was a violent brute of a man. These women had everything to lose, including being defamed by the Senator and President Trump and others for reporting what happened to them. The photos don't lie; the restraining order doesn't lie; the contemporaneous accounts don't lie. Senator Hatch shamed himself.
so ... what you're saying is that you might have a little experience in this matter?

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