To handball or not to handball...
- redneckjedi
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To handball or not to handball...
If any of you watched Uruguay - Ghana today, you know that at the end of extra time, Luis Suarez saved a certain goal that kept Uruguay alive.
Problem is, he's not the goalkeeper. He got a red card, and was ejected. Ghana missed the ensuing penalty, the game went into penalty kicks, and Uruguay won it.
The question I have is this: what would you do in his position? Break the rules and save the game? Or let it go and lose it? I bring it up because we've had a debate before on whether it was ethical for a corner to pull down a WR who would otherwise have an easy catch and sure touchdown. Is doing something against the rules and being penalized according to the rules (without being malicious and causing injury, of course) ethically wrong? Or is it just smart if the alternative is much worse for your team?
Problem is, he's not the goalkeeper. He got a red card, and was ejected. Ghana missed the ensuing penalty, the game went into penalty kicks, and Uruguay won it.
The question I have is this: what would you do in his position? Break the rules and save the game? Or let it go and lose it? I bring it up because we've had a debate before on whether it was ethical for a corner to pull down a WR who would otherwise have an easy catch and sure touchdown. Is doing something against the rules and being penalized according to the rules (without being malicious and causing injury, of course) ethically wrong? Or is it just smart if the alternative is much worse for your team?
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- scott715
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
It is within the rules. Same as fouls and then the team misses the free throw.
- SpiffCoug
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
Smart heads up play. I hope any player on a team I root for is as aware as Suarez was and does the same for my team.
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- kiwibacon
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
Suarez understood the rule, broke it knowing the consequence, and suffered the consequence. Suarez did win that game or at least keep Ghana from winning it with his action. The game has it's rules and consequences. In this situation the consequence is probably not enough but it is currently the established rule. If the rule was a hand ball inside the penalty box is an automatic goal then that changes everything. All of the factors, time left in game, score, etc would probably make me make the same decision and/or feel just like Kitic and want my team to do the same. A gross/flagrant foul but the penalty is minor considering the overall outcome if not done otherwise.
If it was in favor of my team, smart heads up play. If it happens against my team, I would want a good hard look at the rules for hand balls inside the penalty box...but then that opens up to subjectivity with inadvertent hand balls...such a hard call.
...as far as the foul of a CB on a receiver, yes, you still have to "save" the TD.
If it was in favor of my team, smart heads up play. If it happens against my team, I would want a good hard look at the rules for hand balls inside the penalty box...but then that opens up to subjectivity with inadvertent hand balls...such a hard call.
...as far as the foul of a CB on a receiver, yes, you still have to "save" the TD.
- CrimsonCoug
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
A horrible heart-breaker for Ghana and the rest of Africa, but within the rules. When you write a rule, you create a strategy--it's a game. So Change the rules! Video review for goals would improve the game--for balls like this one which would have indisputably been a goal, award the goal and the card.
I also like Bob Bradley's idea for vid review for flopping when it results in a card, too.
It becomes ethically wrong when breaking the rule has effects outside the game. Ethically wrong would be a striker coming in at the keeper kleets up.
It's very different than basketball because scoring opportunities in basketball are far, far more frequent, and it's still not a sure thing that the guy's shot would have gone into the net. The CB/WR situation is similar. the punishment is more commensurate with the crime because it's still not a sure thing that the guy would have caught the ball. In the Ghana case, the only thing keeping Ghana from winning was a handball.
I also like Bob Bradley's idea for vid review for flopping when it results in a card, too.
It becomes ethically wrong when breaking the rule has effects outside the game. Ethically wrong would be a striker coming in at the keeper kleets up.
It's very different than basketball because scoring opportunities in basketball are far, far more frequent, and it's still not a sure thing that the guy's shot would have gone into the net. The CB/WR situation is similar. the punishment is more commensurate with the crime because it's still not a sure thing that the guy would have caught the ball. In the Ghana case, the only thing keeping Ghana from winning was a handball.
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- CougarClaw
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
It also makes a huge difference that the handball came at minute 92 or whatever of the game. An ejection means next to nothing when you're about to resolve the game via penalty kicks.
Had he done this at minute 4, he puts his team at an enormous disadvantage.
I would argue that the rules are currently written to FAVOR those who break them as in this case,at the end of the game when breaking the rule, won them the game. FIFA is investigating what penalty to apply to the player, I hope he gets suspended for the entire cup and perhaps more. You'll notice in the replays that he wasn't even the only player going for the handball.
Smart players in the future will simply line up 6 players along the goal in the last few minutes of play willing to be ejected until rules are changed. I think this could potentially be yet another black-eye for FIFA. My only regret is that it didn't happen for Germany playing against Maradona's Argentina. Argentina deserves to lose to an illegal handball.
Had he done this at minute 4, he puts his team at an enormous disadvantage.
I would argue that the rules are currently written to FAVOR those who break them as in this case,at the end of the game when breaking the rule, won them the game. FIFA is investigating what penalty to apply to the player, I hope he gets suspended for the entire cup and perhaps more. You'll notice in the replays that he wasn't even the only player going for the handball.
Smart players in the future will simply line up 6 players along the goal in the last few minutes of play willing to be ejected until rules are changed. I think this could potentially be yet another black-eye for FIFA. My only regret is that it didn't happen for Germany playing against Maradona's Argentina. Argentina deserves to lose to an illegal handball.
- scott715
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
No you really don't want a handball unless it prevents a sure goal. The other team gets a penalty kick which has a good chance of making and you are then short a man for the rest of the match. I was thinking about fouls in the goal box today. The ref does not call them unless they are really bad because the penalty kick is a severe penalty. Maybe they should was the low level fould be a corner kick and the really bad one a penalty kick. To make it interesting the foul is called and play goes on until the other team gets the ball (just like in hockey).
- CrimsonCoug
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
Here are some excellent thoughts from Bill Easterley, a leading development economist. Strange bedfellows? Perhaps, but worth the click.
http://aidwatchers.com/2010/07/rules-vs ... eat-ghana/
http://aidwatchers.com/2010/07/rules-vs ... eat-ghana/
The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited to the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were and ask, "Why Not?" -JFK & SWK
- Mingjai
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
I don't see how it's any different than tacking an open receiver in the end zone to prevent a sure touchdown (especially in college football) or trying to get a non-shooting foul with up by 3 at the end of a basketball game. The rules foresee such an occurrence and have a penalty specifically for that. Each player knows the penalty and make the decision whether to follow the rule or not.
If Ghana makes the penalty kick, then no one talks about this.
If Ghana makes the penalty kick, then no one talks about this.
- Mars
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Re: To handball or not to handball...
That author is a tool.CrimsonCoug wrote: http://aidwatchers.com/2010/07/rules-vs ... eat-ghana/
Did Oklahoma "cheat" last year every time their offensive line had a false start?