courage

Feel free to discuss appropriate non-BYU/Sports related topics here. We ask you to respect other users, the Church, avoid soapbox postings, and keep it clean.
jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by jvquarterback » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:00 am

I don't think it is primarily about the white cops killing blacks. I'd say more black lives are ruined by white cops who only send them to jail than shoot them. And in none of those other countries that people mentioned is the incarceration rate even close to what it is in US, let alone among blacks.

And if you believe the tripe about government by the people (a great giant hoax) we are all to blame for the incarceration of 25% of black males, despite the fact that they commit no more crimes than whites.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
KingCoug
All-American
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:56 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fanatic
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by KingCoug » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:36 pm

jvquarterback wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:00 am
I don't think it is primarily about the white cops killing blacks. I'd say more black lives are ruined by white cops who only send them to jail than shoot them. And in none of those other countries that people mentioned is the incarceration rate even close to what it is in US, let alone among blacks.

And if you believe the tripe about government by the people (a great giant hoax) we are all to blame for the incarceration of 25% of black males, despite the fact that they commit no more crimes than whites.
Commit no more crimes than whites? Are you talking about total number of crimes or amount of crimes relative to their percentage of the population?

If it's the latter, you should read this.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-st ... on-bandler
"Go forth boldly, nobly, and independent." - Brother Joseph

User avatar
Mars
Retired
Posts: 9086
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:13 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fanatic
Prediction Group: CougarCorner
Contact:

Re: courage

Post by Mars » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:50 pm

Shapiro states that white Americans are punished more severely than black Americans on average for felonies.
Mars al'Thor, The Cougar Reborn!
Resident board douchebag.
https://twitter.com/#!/eldermars

jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by jvquarterback » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:51 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think incarceration rates are too high for whites, blacks, and everyone else. And I agree with people who argue that increasing crime stems from fatherless families (which is a result of increased availability for abortions and government subsidies for children in fatherless homes). I also don't believe "the people" have anything to do with government, which is controlled by a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats - so I don't think we are to blame at all.

I also agree arrest rates for similar incidents occur at a much higher ratio for blacks than whites.

Unfortunately, all that tells us is the arrest rate is higher for blacks than whites. It doesn't tell us how many crimes actually occur. It doesn't tell us if a single person is committing all the crimes. It doesn't tell us if white cops patrol black neighborhoods more than they do white ones. It doesn't tell you that a white woman addicted to pain killers is far, far less likely to be arrested or go to jail than a black guy on crack. You have to look a little further to find that information.

Here is something you can consider: in the state of California in 2011 there were 225k people in prison for drug offences, 45 % black, 30% white, despite the fact that whites are more likely to use every drug (many by a wide margin) except crack.

It's too bad people aren't more concerned with actual freedom (or the lack of it) than they are about a symbol of the freedom. I get that the US Flag represents freedom to you and that's great. It doesn't represent freedom to most blacks, in fact it represents an oppressive government. If you believe the US flag should represent freedom to all, then do something to ensure greater freedom here in this country.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by Ddawg » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:43 pm

Ah, the classic "blame whitey" theory for the ills affecting the black community. Check.

For all those blacks to be convicted of criminal conduct (45% in the CA prison system), you need to have
1. Corrupt/racist cops,
2. Corrupt/racist prosecutors (DA's),
3. Corrupt/racist juries, and
4. Corrupt/racist judges.

So, all those shootings and murders occurring in the black communities of Chicago are being committed by the black residents ..... it's smoke and mirrors. Got it. Blame whitey.

User avatar
SpiffCoug
TV Analyst
Posts: 12724
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:11 am
Fan Level: BYU Fanatic
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by SpiffCoug » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:48 pm

Want greater freedom? Don't break the law.

Oh, the laws are stupid? If only we had a way in this country to change the law.

Oh, wait? There is.
BYU PER W/L Since 1988: 319-53 (.858 )
(8.4x
YDS)+(330xTD)+(100xCOM)-(200xINT)
..................ATT
SpiffCoug's posts are BB-8 approved!
Image

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by Ddawg » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:08 pm

SpiffCoug wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:48 pm
Want greater freedom? Don't break the law.

Oh, the laws are stupid? If only we had a way in this country to change the law.

Oh, wait? There is.
Stop it. The laws are racist/corrupt. The application of the law is racist corrupt. There is a massive racist/corrupt conspiracy that must be uncovered. That means the black police, black police chiefs, black prosecutors, black jurists, and black judges are all in on the racist/corrupt conspiracy. Got it.

nuk13
All-American
Posts: 1281
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:43 am
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by nuk13 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:14 am

We have another example of courage, or in this case loyalty. One of the Las Vegas shooting victims was visited by our president and his wife. She told him not to stand but stand he did, even though his wound was in his leg. The news reported that he said, "Shot in the leg or not, I'm standing for my president."

jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by jvquarterback » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:28 am

Look at Marijuana use and ultimate incarceration. The data are that whites use Marijuana at a about the same rate as blacks so for every 5 whites, one black uses marijuana. In our current criminal "justice" system this is how more blacks would end up in prison than whites.

Let's start with 1000 whites who use marijuana and 200 blacks and evaluate the reasons more blacks end up in prison than whites.

First arrest rate
Blacks are 3.73 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession so assuming an arrest rate of 10% for whites (this works for whatever arrest rate you choose) you have 100 whites arrested and 74 blacks arrested.

Next convictions
Blacks are 1.3 times more likely to be convicted of crimes after arrest than are whites. Assume a 50% conviction rate for whites and you have a 65% conviction rate for blacks.
So 50 whites convicted and 48 blacks convicted.

Next sentencing
Blacks in Cook county Illinois are sentenced to incarceration 51% of the time while whites are convicted 38% of the time. Assuming whites and blacks are sentenced to similar amounts of time (blacks in general receive sentences 67% longer than whites in Florida prisons for identical crimes) that leaves us with 19 whites and 24 blacks in prison even though 5 times as many whites commit the same crime.

Obviously this is just one example of the problem with several stages of the so called "justice" system (and the actual arrest rate and conviction rates are almost certainly off but the ratios and resultant disparities are correct).

There are multiple reasons these things happen in the system that result in injustice and blacks have cause to call into question their disparate treatment primarily by cops, but the small disparities in each stage by prosecutors, juries, and judges can result in very large disparities in imprisonment.

That's reason enough for me not to question anyone's refusal to accept the American flag as a symbol of freedom. Many blacks see the flag on the shoulders and standing behind the backs of people who do not treat them equally before the law and therefore see the flag as a symbol of oppression rather than freedom.

How to fix it? Colin Kaepernik and and I are actually doing the wrong thing in bringing the disparities to the attention of the public. A Stanford study showed that bringing the racial disparities in prison populations (along with the disparities in arrests, convictions, and sentencing) to light actually increases support for harsher penalties that disproportionately effect blacks. Some studies have shown that directly addressing these disparities with police, prosecutors, and judges (but not jurors), has a short term effect on these disparities.

I support decriminalization of drug offenses but that only decreases the raw numbers and has been shown to have no effect or little effect on ratios of arrests, convictions or sentencing.

Remove the incentive to disproportionately arrest, convict, and sentence blacks. A lot of this has to do with incarcerating the easiest marks. Cops, prosecutors and judges are evaluated by how well their arrests, convictions, and judgments/sentencing are upheld. Blacks are easy marks, they're less likely to hire attorneys that appropriately represent them among other reasons.
Last edited by jvquarterback on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: courage

Post by Ddawg » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:24 am

jvquarterback wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:28 am
I don't expect anyone with a U next to their name to understand this but here you go.
With a moronic comment like that I won't even read your post.
Shows what a biased child you are.
Buh-bye.

Locked