BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

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byufan4ever
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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by byufan4ever » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:27 am

Why the change now? I don't buy the excuse "there wasn't a demand for it until now."
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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by hawkwing » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am

I've been thinking about this, and I think it may have gone something like this...

A few years ago, BYU top brass decides they want to sell caffeinated beverages, they are tired of having to bring in their own Diet Cokes, or having to drive off campus to get one (they are old and don't want to walk). And driving anywhere near campus is a nightmare because of all the students (drivers and pedestrians) not following traffic laws. So how do they reverse the decision without making it look like they're going back on some vital part of BYU? They put the claim out there that there is "no demand." Obviously the vast majority of people enjoy a delicious ice-cold caffeinated beverage, so it instantly raises an outcry and demand comes pouring in. Now, with the narrative set that the only reason there wasn't Coke before hand was because there was no demand and the clear demand now, they can make the switch.

Of course because this is BYU and the Church, it takes years to get even the most simple of changes in place and done because of the ridiculous levels of bureaucracy, but the deed gets done.

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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by Fido » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:20 am

With the amount of change that has happened in the last year at BYU, it appears that either leadership is open to questioning why on existing policies or is at least willing to listen to differing opinions.
- Amnesty for honor code violations when reporting crimes like rape
- Addressing ecclesiastical endorsement for those with no religious affiliation (or dropped their affiliation)
- Easing the grooming standards to allow for some facial hair (I'd love to see that go further)
- Selling caffeinated beverages on campus (increasing revenue maybe?)

All those things to me are positives and I think address situations that have been problems in the past.

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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by Sammich » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:20 pm

SenorCougar wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:17 pm
i was asked by a nonLDS acquaintance years ago why I couldn't drink a cup of coffee? He then asked what coffee had that caffinated sodas didn't have. Was it the temperature of the caffine that caused the problem? Cold caffine ok,hot caffine prohibited He then asked if tabaco was prohibited, why was marijuana not specifically listed. Does that mean it is ok? Just an outsiders questions and points of view...
There's a pretty straightforward answer to this in my mind, and that is "we do what we are told by our prophets." We don't avoid alcohol and drugs simply because of the negative effects they have on health or spirituality---though those are nice side benefits---we avoid them to be obedient. And that obedience will give us both spiritual and physical benefits because it is backed by a God-given authority. If at any point there was a change to the word of wisdom to allow or disallow anything, those benefits would remain.

In other words, we don't just avoid coffee and tea because of some arbitrary number of chemicals that pass the cutoff point of "too many negative effects," but because doing so comes with with the blessings of obedience. And while there may be health advantages to avoiding caffeinated soda, and you would likely be wise to avoid them, there's no prophetic prohibition.

If Mormons were going merely based on overall health effects, how would we measure the overall good and bads of what science hands us every couple years via the the "red wine is good for you!" "tea has positive mental effects!" sort of studies? So I try to avoid that type of argument and focus on the fact that if God told me to never eat whole grain wheat and green vegetables ever again, I'd do it regardless as to what the research says about those things. Bad example maybe, because that would be a pretty easy one to give up.

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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by Sammich » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:21 pm

Also, marijuana is definitely included in the word of wisdom if you go off of what has been said by recent prophets.

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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by Ygridiron4ever » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:23 pm

The winds of change.......
This is the first time I get to play the "I know someone who knows" game. And in this case I really do know someone who walks among those at the very top. This person is in the top 10 of the "most influential Mormons" list.
In discussing several changes at BYU and the Church in general (i.e. teacher councils and "Come follow me." for relief society and Mel. Priesthood), he indicated the brethren are facing diversity issues like never before - a natural product of great missionary work. They are working harder than ever before to understand climate and culture, and to find ways to stay true to eternal principles while not alienating members with out-of-date or out-of-culture practices.
He reports that focus groups and climate studies play a bigger role than ever before.
He likened it to preparing the field for a big harvest; for more changes coming.

We'll see
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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by CrimsonCoug » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:08 pm

Fido wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:20 am
With the amount of change that has happened in the last year at BYU, it appears that either leadership is open to questioning why on existing policies or is at least willing to listen to differing opinions.
- Amnesty for honor code violations when reporting crimes like rape
- Addressing ecclesiastical endorsement for those with no religious affiliation (or dropped their affiliation)
- Easing the grooming standards to allow for some facial hair (I'd love to see that go further)
- Selling caffeinated beverages on campus (increasing revenue maybe?)

All those things to me are positives and I think address situations that have been problems in the past.
A few meandering thoughts:

Each of these issues was originally instituted at BYU under the presidency of Ernest L Wilkinson. Now, I'm not gonna knock Brother Wilkinson--others can do that far more ably than me. And one could make the argument that on net those policies were helpful. He was a man of and for his time.

But I wonder how the issue of caffeinated soft drinks gained so much widespread purchase. I mean, you had Mike Wallace asking the Prophet about it for Pete's sake! It was clearly a matter of orthopraxy, even if not orthodoxy. It's kinda what we're known for. I remember my parents teaching me that "we don't drink caffeine". But honestly, I don't really know where that comes from. Anyone else know how this all started?

And the 'no demand' argument is disappointingly lame. Strange, then, that the change happened under a lawyer (Worthen), when BYU has had a well-trained economist (Bateman) as a recent president, who could have just observed that it would be more efficient to let the market decide by allowing the beverages to be served. The fact that it was a matter of policy necessarily means that it wasn't a matter of economics.


PS. I agree that this should be moved to the Lounge. Still, it's a telling state of BYU football that this is the most exciting thing BYU-related to talk about, one month into the season. :~(
The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited to the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were and ask, "Why Not?" -JFK & SWK

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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by KingCoug » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 pm

Ygridiron4ever wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:23 pm
The winds of change.......
This is the first time I get to play the "I know someone who knows" game. And in this case I really do know someone who walks among those at the very top. This person is in the top 10 of the "most influential Mormons" list.
In discussing several changes at BYU and the Church in general (i.e. teacher councils and "Come follow me." for relief society and Mel. Priesthood), he indicated the brethren are facing diversity issues like never before - a natural product of great missionary work. They are working harder than ever before to understand climate and culture, and to find ways to stay true to eternal principles while not alienating members with out-of-date or out-of-culture practices.
He reports that focus groups and climate studies play a bigger role than ever before.
He likened it to preparing the field for a big harvest; for more changes coming.

We'll see
Other than caffeinated drinks at BYU, what "diversity" or "climate and culture" issues are you talking about?
"Go forth boldly, nobly, and independent." - Brother Joseph

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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by Gunk » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:45 pm

I'm late to the thread, but have a few cents on the matter.

1) About 5 years ago there was an article in Forbes or Time, one of those big pubs, that discussed the Church's finances. Was a great article. I recommend reading it. It mentioned Mormons aren't allowed to drink caffeinated sodas. There was a big to-do about it and the church releases a statement saying drinking such sodas wasn't against the WoW. Well, BYU students pounced, prompting BYU to claim the only reason BYU didn't serve suck drinks was because there wasn't demand. BYU students pounced again. Petitions were passed around, emails sent, etc. The Church and BYU found themselves in a hard spot. Shortly thereafter the Church retracted their statement on caffeinated beverages and the leader of the bring-caffeine-to-BYU movement was pressured by his bishop to give up the cause (I know because I chatted with him on FB at the time). BYU leadership took some bruises those few weeks and I suspect it contributed to the recent change in policy.
2) It's complete hearsay, but a family friend of ours has some high-up connections within Church leadership. Rumor is there are a "bunch" of "big" changes in the works and the presidency is just waiting for when the new prophet is called.
3) The Church is bleeding members states side. Internationally the Church is growing. We're becoming much more of an international church than a U.S. church. While U.S. baptisms may be fine, the Church is having a real hard time holding onto Millennials born into the Church due in part to Church cultural things like no drinking Dr. Pepper. I am sure the change in women's garments is also a reflection of this.
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Re: BYU announces caffeinated beverages will be served on campus and at games

Post by KingCoug » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:51 pm

Gunk wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:45 pm
I'm late to the thread, but have a few cents on the matter.

1) About 5 years ago there was an article in Forbes or Time, one of those big pubs, that discussed the Church's finances. Was a great article. I recommend reading it. It mentioned Mormons aren't allowed to drink caffeinated sodas. There was a big to-do about it and the church releases a statement saying drinking such sodas wasn't against the WoW. Well, BYU students pounced, prompting BYU to claim the only reason BYU didn't serve suck drinks was because there wasn't demand. BYU students pounced again. Petitions were passed around, emails sent, etc. The Church and BYU found themselves in a hard spot. Shortly thereafter the Church retracted their statement on caffeinated beverages and the leader of the bring-caffeine-to-BYU movement was pressured by his bishop to give up the cause (I know because I chatted with him on FB at the time). BYU leadership took some bruises those few weeks and I suspect it contributed to the recent change in policy.
I like a Diet Coke (mainly to stay awake) as much as the next guy but anyone who made caffeinated drinks a movement at BYU, besides being a jackyewt, had way too much time on their hands.
2) It's complete hearsay, but a family friend of ours has some high-up connections within Church leadership. Rumor is there are a "bunch" of "big" changes in the works and the presidency is just waiting for when the new prophet is called.
I know you're just the messenger but these kind of rumors have been around for decades. I don't think we'll see "a bunch" of anything (because we don't need to) and I don't see the purpose in waiting for a new prophet even if there was.
3) The Church is bleeding members states side. Internationally the Church is growing. We're becoming much more of an international church than a U.S. church. While U.S. baptisms may be fine, the Church is having a real hard time holding onto Millennials born into the Church due in part to Church cultural things like no drinking Dr. Pepper. I am sure the change in women's garments is also a reflection of this.
The problem holding onto Millenials has less to do with caffenaited drinks and much more them being raised in a very liberal, secularized, and self-centered society which, unfortunately, many of them have embraced. Dr Pepper is the least of the problems with these types.
"Go forth boldly, nobly, and independent." - Brother Joseph

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