50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Feel free to discuss appropriate non-BYU/Sports related topics here. We ask you to respect other users, the Church, avoid soapbox postings, and keep it clean.
jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by jvquarterback » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:46 pm

Republican. I've been a committeeman for some time. There aren't many republicans who believe Turkey or Saudia are any better than Iran. And while most believe Israel is an ally none of them can explain how Israel benefits the US. A lot of people believe like Mars, that we somehow owe the modern state of Israel something even though many of the guys running it are as bad as King Ahab. Don't get me wrong. The guys running Egypt, Syria, Saudia, Iran, and Iraq are no better, and oftentimes worse, but it is futile to say one side is better than the other or that we have allies over there.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by Ddawg » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:23 pm

jvquarterback wrote:Republican. I've been a committeeman for some time. There aren't many republicans who believe Turkey or Saudia are any better than Iran. And while most believe Israel is an ally none of them can explain how Israel benefits the US. A lot of people believe like Mars, that we somehow owe the modern state of Israel something even though many of the guys running it are as bad as King Ahab. Don't get me wrong. The guys running Egypt, Syria, Saudia, Iran, and Iraq are no better, and oftentimes worse, but it is futile to say one side is better than the other or that we have allies over there.
I think you should run for political office. You obviously have a deep interest and a passion. You should start with a local state office, then give the national office a go. It could go surprisingly well.

As for what Israel does for us? It's pretty simple. They have the best intelligence in the Middle East. The historically have shared lots of deep intel on terrorist and Islamic nation activity - and still share with us. Good intelligence is priceless. Both Jordan and Egypt have been very helpful in the intelligence arena also. Israel and Egypt actually work together against terrorism. Both Israel and Egypt intensely dislike the radical jihadi Islamic movements.

jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by jvquarterback » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:11 am

Israel's spy network benefits Israel. Which is fine. Israel should defend itself. It is incredibly naive to think the Israelis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis, and Turks aren't manipulating the info to get what they want.

I have no plans for politics. Especially here in the communist state of California.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by Ddawg » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:24 am

jvquarterback wrote:Israel's spy network benefits Israel. Which is fine. Israel should defend itself. It is incredibly naive to think the Israelis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis, and Turks aren't manipulating the info to get what they want.
It's not naive at all to know that Israeli intelligence and U.S. share info in the Middle East, and have for decades. Just because Israel shares info with us, it does not mean we accept it as "gospel" without verifying it. The intelligence world is always skeptical, and has lots of checks and balances. Intelligence analysts don't get 1 piece of unverified information, from 1 source, and "run with it." There are many pieces to the puzzle.

For some unknown reason, you have a real bias against Israel. It doesn't serve you well.

jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by jvquarterback » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:22 am

Wrong, I have no bias. That's the point. You and people who think we owe Israel something have a bias in favor of Israel. Even though they've never done anything to help the US. Even most Israelis admit they don't provide the US with anything of value. US support for Israel may not be as despicable as US support for the Saudis, but it hurts the US as much or more. And I have yet to see any evidence that Israel does anything for the US.

Israeli intelligence is used by the Israelis to further enmesh the US in middle east conflict (which benefits Israel but has no effect on US security) we have no business being involved with in the first place (of course, that's no different than Saudi, Jordanian, Egyptian, or Turkish intelligence). How can that be viewed as anything other than self-serving propaganda?
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by Ddawg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:27 am

jvquarterback wrote: You ...... think we owe Israel something ...
Wrong.

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by Ddawg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:29 am

jvquarterback wrote: Israeli intelligence is used by the Israelis to further enmesh the US in middle east conflict (which benefits Israel but has no effect on US security)
Have you actually worked in intelligence? Any personal experience so you know this?

jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by jvquarterback » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:09 pm

Ddawg wrote:
jvquarterback wrote: You ...... think we owe Israel something ...
Wrong.
What percentage people do you think support Israel out of some strange perceived moral obligation like Mars?

What's your reason for supporting $4B of direct military aid to Israel then? Surely you don't think the intelligence is worth that much, let alone the trillions of dollars we've spent directly in a (failed) attempt to make the ME safe for a few million Israelis.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

jvquarterback
All-American
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by jvquarterback » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Ddawg wrote:
jvquarterback wrote: Israeli intelligence is used by the Israelis to further enmesh the US in middle east conflict (which benefits Israel but has no effect on US security)
Have you actually worked in intelligence? Any personal experience so you know this?
When Israeli generals say, "Israeli intelligence was a full partner to the picture presented by American and British intelligence regarding Iraq's non-conventional capabilities" which included "an exaggerated assessment of Iraqi capabilities" you don't really need any intelligence experience. And you can go read up on how that garbage was used by Israeli prime minsters and defense ministers to get the US to declare war on Iraq, then got upset when that "intelligence" would be questioned by UN weapons inspectors.

And this garbage that you somehow have to have experience as a spy to recognize Shortcomings in US foreign policy is ridiculous. Why don't you just make the best argument advancing your point rather than pretending you know more than others?
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

User avatar
Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: 50 years ago today Israel attacked the US Navy and the Pentagon covered it up.

Post by Ddawg » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:45 pm

jvquarterback wrote: And this garbage that you somehow have to have experience as a spy .....
It's somewhat funny - if it wasn't such a blatant lie that you posted. It speaks to your integrity - which is severely lacking in this instance. You want to be truthful and honest in your postings? Please do not post lies about me. Refrain from making crap up. I have never said, thought, conveyed, posted, or communicated in any way that I was a spy. That is fabricated crap from your mind. Period.

Locked