President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Feel free to discuss appropriate non-BYU/Sports related topics here. We ask you to respect other users, the Church, avoid soapbox postings, and keep it clean.
User avatar
BoiseBYU
Pro
Posts: 3652
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:35 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby BoiseBYU » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:08 pm

I'm sure most of you have seen the clip of an interview between Bill O"Reilly and President Trump in which he expressed "respect" for Putin and in response to O'Reilly's statement that Putin is a killer said that America is no different. It was shocking and disturbing. When Obama went on his "apology" tour of several years, conservatives expressed displeasure and accused him of doing wrong for criticisizng our country's past mistakes. While Obama's apologies were an effort, misguided in my view, to acknowledge our wrongs as a way to say that America is better than that, Trump's equating Putin's Russia to America is nothing more than an indictment of our country and an invitation to do the same violence and evil. We stand for much better than Putin who kills opponents of the regime, wholesale slaughters innocents by design, kills his own citizens, and silences critics. Are we really no different? I say no. We have made mistakes, we have done wrong, but we are not murderous thugs. The irony is that today in a hospital in Moscow is man who had the temerity to criticize Putin. He is now in a coma the victim of a poisoning. Does America really not care about such a person because we do not care and just might do the same? God forbid.



imuakahuku
All-American
Posts: 1543
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:49 pm
Fan Level: BYU Blue Goggled Homer
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby imuakahuku » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:14 pm

To be fair he didn't say we are like Russia. He said our history is not so pure. He seemed to be inferring some of the conflicts we have gotten into (Iraq) and it looked to me he didn't want to say names. But if you want some names, just look up the Clintons. 40+ known associates dead. Just recently the DNC worker that was supposedly the leak to some DNC emails who was shot point blank in the back of the head and nothing taken. Then you have Obama killing US citizens with drone strikes. I know he was in Yemen and he was a terrorist but he also was a US citizen and was subject to the protections of the US Constitution. If he were killed in action against the US that's one thing but to assassinate him is a slippery slope. If you would do it over there would you do it over here if you felt the risks were nearly as high? Also, can you say Fast and Furious, our government provided (read helped smuggle) guns to the cartels so they would be used in crimes around the border and would show up at crime scenes. They knew people would be killed by the weapons, and this so they could try to persuade the public that we need more gun control. Obama was/is the biggest gun control freak to ever live in the White House. He was even #1 in the Senate during his short tenure.
Also, the reason for Obama's apology tour was to like his "lead from behind" strategy, America had to be brought down a few notches and that America was not exceptional. Of course his feeble mind never could understand what that really meant. He was too programmed by his handlers to ever understand it. They in turn never understood it either so how could they have explained it to him. The most ironic thing is the LEFT has always been in love with Russia. They wanted so badly to institute communism here in America and even Obama's mentors Dohrn and Ayers expected to give over part of America to the USSR if his org succeeded in overthrowing the US government.
But even with all our warts and pimples we are still an exceptional country. We are the first and only one that established it's government based on the will of the people. That the government serves the people and not vice versa. Our chief export has been freedom and liberty since our founding.



User avatar
BoiseBYU
Pro
Posts: 3652
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:35 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby BoiseBYU » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:25 pm

imuakahuku wrote:To be fair he didn't say we are like Russia. He said our history is not so pure. He seemed to be inferring some of the conflicts we have gotten into (Iraq) and it looked to me he didn't want to say names. But if you want some names, just look up the Clintons. 40+ known associates dead. Just recently the DNC worker that was supposedly the leak to some DNC emails who was shot point blank in the back of the head and nothing taken. Then you have Obama killing US citizens with drone strikes. I know he was in Yemen and he was a terrorist but he also was a US citizen and was subject to the protections of the US Constitution. If he were killed in action against the US that's one thing but to assassinate him is a slippery slope. If you would do it over there would you do it over here if you felt the risks were nearly as high? Also, can you say Fast and Furious, our government provided (read helped smuggle) guns to the cartels so they would be used in crimes around the border and would show up at crime scenes. They knew people would be killed by the weapons, and this so they could try to persuade the public that we need more gun control. Obama was/is the biggest gun control freak to ever live in the White House. He was even #1 in the Senate during his short tenure.
Also, the reason for Obama's apology tour was to like his "lead from behind" strategy, America had to be brought down a few notches and that America was not exceptional. Of course his feeble mind never could understand what that really meant. He was too programmed by his handlers to ever understand it. They in turn never understood it either so how could they have explained it to him. The most ironic thing is the LEFT has always been in love with Russia. They wanted so badly to institute communism here in America and even Obama's mentors Dohrn and Ayers expected to give over part of America to the USSR if his org succeeded in overthrowing the US government.
But even with all our warts and pimples we are still an exceptional country. We are the first and only one that established it's government based on the will of the people. That the government serves the people and not vice versa. Our chief export has been freedom and liberty since our founding.


Good points. You will get no argument from me that we've made errors. BUT Trump said we are no different from Putin to excuse or justify the notion that Putin has done wrong and is not someone worthy of respect. It is ironic that historically the left have been enamored of the Soviet Union and then Russia. Even in its hey day, I never saw the bromance that we see going ontoday from Trump regarding Putin. It is almost creepy. Bush thought he could see into Putin's soul. Obama thought he could "reset" relations with Putin. Fail! And now this bromance (the Wall Street Jounral's description by they was, not mine). So utterly bizaare.



User avatar
hawkwing
TV Analyst
Posts: 11560
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:35 am
Fan Level: BYU Blue Goggled Homer
Prediction Group: CougarCorner
Location: Eagle Mountain, UT
Contact:

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby hawkwing » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:48 pm

Putin is a terrible dictator and is not to be trusted in any way. It is akin to admiring Satan because he was able to convince a third of the hosts of heaven to follow him.



User avatar
SpiffCoug
TV Analyst
Posts: 12499
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:11 am
Fan Level: BYU Fanatic
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby SpiffCoug » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:29 pm

What was so striking to me was that his whole campaign was #MAGA and trumpeting American exceptionalism, and then to hear the president denigrate us by likening us to a thuggish regime like Putins contained a great deal of cognizant dissonance.

In all honesty, I don't think Trump meant it like he said it or how it was received, but mainly because I don't think he thinks too much before he speaks. But it was a very poor comment.

It was very similar to Obama chastising Americans by reminding us to avoid getting on our high horse when condemning ISIS because of how awful the Crusades were.

This was bad Trump and shouldn't be defended.


BYU PER W/L Since 1995: 223-40 (.853)
(8.4x
YDS)+(330xTD)+(100xCOM)-(200xINT)
..................ATT
SpiffCoug's posts are BB-8 approved!
Image

Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby Ddawg » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:38 pm

BoiseBYU wrote:I'm sure most of you have seen the clip of an interview between Bill O"Reilly and President Trump in which he expressed "respect" for Putin and in response to O'Reilly's statement that Putin is a killer said that America is no different. It was shocking and disturbing.

I think you folks need some historical perspective. Did Trump really say there in "No difference" between the USA and Russia? No.

Take a step back and gain some historical perspective. Who was the worst killer in modern history? Many of you would say Adolf Hitler. Hitler was responsible for the deaths of 11 million in his death camps. Including the murder of 6 million Jews.

But, Joseph Stalin was far worse. It's generally accepted that Stalin killed 20 million. But: "Indeed, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the literary giant who wrote harrowingly about the Soviet gulag system, claimed the true number of Stalin’s victims might have been as high as 60 million.

Most other estimates from reputed scholars and historians tend to range from between 20 and 60 million.

In his book, “Unnatural Deaths in the U.S.S.R.: 1928-1954,” I.G. Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin."

So, Hitler was responsible for killing 11 million while Stalin was somewhere around 45- 60 million.
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people- ... ll-1111789

Did you folks know about the "Bromance" between Stalin and FDR? Yep.

In a book: "Roosevelt and Stalin", the author details the surprisingly warm relationship of an unlikely duo." FDR and Stalin had suck a friendly relationship Winston Churchill felt left out. Interesting.

A summary of the book:
"On one side of the equation is President Franklin D. Roosevelt, a consummate charmer who’s as full of manipulative bonhomie as ever when he twice meets with the Soviet leader. For his part, a short and stocky Joseph Stalin grins and bursts into a delighted laugh when he first walks up to FDR."

"Stalin grins and laughs? Stalin? This is just one of many surprising moments in “Roosevelt and Stalin,” which intricately tracks the World War II negotiations between three powerful men over the future of the planet."

"Stalin in person turns out to be much more complicated than the common depiction of him as a ruthless monster. Armed with Clinton-style charm – yes, you read that right – Stalin is suspicious and paranoid too. But he has plenty of reasons to be both. So does the third big shot whose name doesn’t even make it into the title of this book: Winston Churchill, the British prime minister and odd man out who can’t break through the cozy FDR-Stalin twosome."

"But FDR still accomplished plenty. The unlikely cooperation between the capitalist and the communist, the product of human warmth and trust, created the flawed but essential United Nations. As Churchill sulked, Roosevelt and Stalin grinned and charmed and arm-twisted their way to victory and the world beyond the war. We all live in their legacy."

Any of you think FDR was a simplistic fool? Not so. Any of you think Trump doesn't know exactly who Putin is? Of course he does. He also knows he needs to work with Putin to destroy ISIS in the Middle East, and resolve a whole host of world wide issues (Ukraine?).

The fact is, Lincoln said "you can catch more flies with a bucket of honey than a bucket of vinegar." Trump didn't build a $10 billion dollar empire by being a fool. Why piss off Putin when we need to work with him in the critical Middle East, etc. Think he's looking down the road just like FDR did? Count on it.



User avatar
snoscythe
Over-Achiever
Posts: 7471
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:52 am
Fan Level: BYU Fanatic
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby snoscythe » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:14 pm

I think Trump is inarticulate, not an America hater.

His pledge is to "Make America Great Again." The very essence of that statement that so many rally around is an understanding or feeling that America 2016 is either not Great, or not as Great as it once was. Even those who believe America is exceptional found little to argue with in that motto.

When Trump says America does some of the same thing Putin does, I don't view that as a slight of America-America, I view that as an indictment of the Clinton/Obama America that he inherited and is trying to set aright.



User avatar
BoiseBYU
Pro
Posts: 3652
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:35 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby BoiseBYU » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:34 pm

snoscythe wrote:I think Trump is inarticulate, not an America hater.

His pledge is to "Make America Great Again." The very essence of that statement that so many rally around is an understanding or feeling that America 2016 is either not Great, or not as Great as it once was. Even those who believe America is exceptional found little to argue with in that motto.

When Trump says America does some of the same thing Putin does, I don't view that as a slight of America-America, I view that as an indictment of the Clinton/Obama America that he inherited and is trying to set aright.


I think there is some merit to Trump being inarticulate, but that does not give him a pass. The issue is not whether he is an American hater or not, it is that he his willing to justify his respect for Putin by saying that It is no big deal that Putin is an extra judicial killer because "we've got a lot of killers." "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" He equates America to a country that has invaded and seized land for its own possession. He equates our country to a man who executes people who speak out against him. He equates our country to a regime that intentionally targets and slaughters innocents to prop up a murderous dictator. Presidents Clinton, Bushes I and II, and Oabama were far from perfect but did not order such things. But that is the despot we face. If you want to respect him, go for it. Ask Presidents Bush and Obama how far those efforts went in getting Russia to become a responsible country. We all know those efforts failed. Respect all you want, let's just not justify the respect of such an evil man by saying America does the same things this man has done. We haven't. We don't. And we are different and represent something better. It is heartening to see a number of conservative Republicans, including the Majority Leader of the Senate, rebuke the President.



Ddawg
All Star
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:24 pm
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby Ddawg » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:08 pm

BoiseBYU wrote:I think there is some merit to Trump being inarticulate, but that does not give him a pass. The issue is not whether he is an American hater or not, it is that he his willing to justify his respect for Putin by saying that It is no big deal that Putin is an extra judicial killer because "we've got a lot of killers." "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" He equates America to a country that has invaded and seized land for its own possession.

Interesting. Did you know the USA was the inspiration for Adolph Hitler's handling of the Jews in Germany? Did you know Hitler looked at how the USA handled the native American Indians and was inspired to handle the Jews the same way - extermination. Did you know that?
Last edited by Ddawg on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.



nuk13
All-American
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:43 am
Fan Level: BYU Fan
Prediction Group: CougarCorner

Re: President Trump: America IS Exceptional!

Postby nuk13 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:53 pm

The Majority leader of the senate is not a conservative.

I had a friend that had a book called Death by Government. In it I saw the list of murderers and Stalin topped the list with at least what Ddawg quotes. Mao was next and Hitler was in third place with more than what you quote Ddawg. I don't remember Stalin's exact number and I don't care to remember it.

It's obvious that you don't like Mr. Trump Boisebyu, and you are free to think what you want. I am very thankful Clinton didn't beat him.




Return to “The Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests