Building the Wall

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jvquarterback
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Re: Building the Wall

Post by jvquarterback » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:55 pm

Ddawg wrote:No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem.
Just clarifying. It seems you agree with me that the costs are the problem, not the migrants because 65% of the country fails to cover their government "cost" starting with all the 85 year old white women who draw a disproportionate amount from Social Security and Medicare ... or the eight children of an LDS family which cost 12K apiece to "educate." Once again, the root of the problem is the cost (or rather the government that robs some individuals to pay those costs), not the individual.

If it weren't for the costs, I'd be all for a more liberal policy on immigration. I have nothing against immigrants or the poor. Sure there is more crime in poorer areas but that is true whether or not people are migrants.
Last edited by jvquarterback on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building the Wall

Post by BroncoBot » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Take away the incentive to get on the "heroin" as JVQ calls it, and you eliminate the problem with illegal immigration. I do not agree with coming to America to get free education, health care, and food. If a migrant is coming here to work/further themself they should become a citizen or work legally and make use of the resources available here.

totally agree that the cost is the problem.

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Ddawg
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Re: Building the Wall

Post by Ddawg » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:02 pm

jvquarterback wrote:
Ddawg wrote:No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem.
It seems you agree with me that the costs are the problem ..... starting with all the 85 year old white women who draw a disproportionate amount from Social Security and Medicare ... or the eight children of an LDS family which cost 12K apiece to "educate."
That's why I have written to my Congressman asking him to introduce legislation - where all 85 year old white women are turned into cat food. And any family that has more than 2 children are forced to put their kids to work picking strawberries and cherries. They can wash cars and rotate tires on Saturday. LOL! Just kidding.
;)

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Ddawg
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Re: Building the Wall

Post by Ddawg » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:32 pm

jvquarterback wrote:
Ddawg wrote:No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem.
Just clarifying. It seems you agree with me that the costs are the problem, not the migrants because 65% of the country fails to cover their government "cost" .......
1. We agree the cost is the problem - and these illegal parents have NO right to claim the education, medical care, etc. because they have not paid into it. We are a generous nation But - generosity cannot go so far that it hurts the children or legit American tax payers.

For instance - here is a true story about a friend of mine that got a job teaching High School in the City of Los Angeles. The job requirements asked if the applicant was bilingual in 2 languages. On her application and in her interview she said "Yes." (She went on a mission to Germany - both spoke and wrote fluently. Also, had a Masters degree in education.) Once hired, her school administration discovered she was not fluent in Spanish - but German. They were going to fire her because she did not speak Spanish. About 65% of her students were Spanish speaking only. This is how far this illegal crap has gone. We will fire a highly qualified and dedicated teacher (who has a family at home to support) because they cannot speak Spanish to illegal students. It's crazy.
jvquarterback wrote: If it weren't for the costs, I'd be all for a more liberal policy on immigration. I have nothing against immigrants or the poor.
It's not about having anything against people because they are poor. I grew up poor. I have friends that are very strapped - poor - and struggle. Poor is not the issue. Bur impacting our resources in a HUGE way - to the point it degrades the services deserving tax paying Americans get is wrong.

Just the number of LEGAL immigrants that we take in is about 1 million per year. Combined - Canada, Australis, and New Zealand allowed 530,000 to immigrate and have permanent status. We are a generous nation - but there is a limit.
jvquarterback wrote: Sure there is more crime in poorer areas but that is true whether or not people are migrants.
But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that? These victims are real people with REAL families. Here's personal experience. A few years back I was working as a Paramedic in South Central L.A. We were rolling on a "shots fired w/ victim down" call. On arrival, I found the patient was a Police officer. He was shot multiple times in the face and neck. He was responding to an armed robbery in a small family grocery store. As he was walking up to the front door - 3 male (all illegals from South America) busted out the door and gunned this poor cop down at point bland range. I worked him all the way to the hospital. He didn't survive. He left a wife and 3 children. I know the 3 men were illegal because they were caught. I have experience after experience of good American tax payers being shot, stabbed, murdered, raped, robbed, run over, etc, etc. It's not something I just read about. These are real people whose lives are heavily impacted and sometimes destroyed. It needs to be stopped. The idiot left Democrat politicians are complicit in these devastating crimes.

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Re: Building the Wall

Post by jvquarterback » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:32 pm

Ddawg wrote:But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that?
Well everyone adds to crime rates. Why should we tolerate any of that? We could make America pristine again. Kick everyone out.

I don't buy that migrants are any more prone to violent crime than others in their economic situation. You're overstating your case there, notwithstaning your anecdotal evidence.

The reason to limit immigration has only to do with the costs. And if it weren't for all the government handouts there wouldn't be any cost.
If ye love the tranquility of servitude better than the contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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Re: Building the Wall

Post by Ddawg » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:50 pm

jvquarterback wrote:
Ddawg wrote:But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that?
Well everyone adds to crime rates. Why should we tolerate any of that? We could make America pristine again. Kick everyone out.
That is not true. I understand your tongue in cheek, sarcastic statement. It's just not true.
jvquarterback wrote: I don't buy that migrants are any more prone to violent crime than others in their economic situation. You're overstating your case there, notwithstaning your anecdotal evidence.
I'm not overstating anything. I'm telling you real world experiences. It happens repeatedly every week. Regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not. And, I have never said ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. Not even close. But some certainly are. Also, to say that poor people, in poor economic situations become criminals is a cop out - an excuse. It's not true. Lots of poor people do not act criminally. Though some do. It's case by case - person by person.
jvquarterback wrote: The reason to limit immigration has only to do with the costs. And if it weren't for all the government handouts there wouldn't be any cost.
Not true. The reason to control immigration is multi-faceted. Like a diamond. It's not one dimensional or simple. But costs and crime are certainly a part of it. Bottom line, any govt. has a right to control WHO and how MANY people come into their country. I'm glad finally we have an administration that is addressing a ridiculous situation.

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Re: Building the Wall

Post by BoiseBYU » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:50 pm

The billions spent on this wall will be a waste. It won't really be much help at all. The problem with illegal immigration today is not people crossing the Rio Grande. It is people coming through our airports and staying past the visa deadline. No wall fixes that. This won't be the first time our federal government has wasted money, time and effort on some fool hardy project. And it won't be the last.
Last edited by BoiseBYU on Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Building the Wall

Post by scott715 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:27 am

Why don't they build a virtual wall of drones to patrol the border. Much cheaper and it creates jobs too.

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Re: Building the Wall

Post by Ddawg » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:01 am

BoiseBYU wrote:The billions spent on this wall will be a waste. It won't really be much help at all. The problem with illegal immigration today is not people crossing the Rio Grande.
Juan Francisco Lopes-Sanchez is the man that shot and killed Kate Steinle in San Francisco. He crossed the Rio Grande repeatedly. He had 7 felony convictions, had been from the U.S. 5 time. Was on probation in Texas at the time when he shot and killed Kate. He had 52 different jail records. If that was your daughter that was shot and killed by a repeat illegal criminal - would you want that wall built? Would you consider it a "waste of money?" How many American lives will be saved by building that wall? No one knows. But more that not building that wall.

An as for overstays - they are about 40% of the illegals. That number is considered pretty accurate, give or take, by the best guesstimates. Based on a study by PEW.

Based on the Israeli wall model (which is 99% effective), it will cost the $6.4 billion. So, tossing around the $20 billion figure ia generous, and probably high. Considering that illegals in the U.S. cost us $129 billion each year, and untold lives - it's a deal.
Last edited by Ddawg on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Building the Wall

Post by Ddawg » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:03 am

scott715 wrote:Why don't they build a virtual wall of drones to patrol the border. Much cheaper and it creates jobs too.
That will be part of the equation - and already is in use. It's not "the" answer. No 1 item is "the" answer. Just like building the wall is not "the" answer. It's part of the equation. It's multi-faceted. It's a very helpful tool. But a valuable tool. Out Border Patrol agents want that wall built. They are the experts on border enforcement.

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