New Sheriff

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snoscythe
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Re: New Sheriff

Postby snoscythe » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:00 pm

So, now we're okay with presidents who refuse to enforce laws they disagree with?



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BroncoBot
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Re: New Sheriff

Postby BroncoBot » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:14 pm

snoscythe wrote:Ryan is a tool.

Q: How many times did the House pass a bills to repeal Obamacare under Obama?
A: At least 60.

Q: How many times has the House voted to repeal Obamacare since Trump took office?
A: Zero.

Exactly. Ryan is a fool, a tool and a buffoon. He's not a leader that we want leading conservatives.



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Re: New Sheriff

Postby Ddawg » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:15 pm

snoscythe wrote:So, now we're okay with presidents who refuse to enforce laws they disagree with?


Absolutely. Exactly what Obama did for 8 years. Wasn't Obama the "gold standard"? At least, that's what we were told - the best and brightest ever. Right? ;) :whistle:



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Re: New Sheriff

Postby BroncoBot » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:17 pm

BlueK wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:IIf you want real freedom like what the founding fathers believed in then you should hope Trump is successful in his endeavors.

This is the most interesting part of your post to me. I am a conservative libertarian and place this principle pretty much at the top of the list. I am a Constitutional originalist. To me, Trump is mostly the opposite of this. I feel like his very hostile comments about the press are meant to lay the groundwork for eventually eliminating freedom of the press.

You're listening to the panicking press too much. Just like a lot of people here thought Trump was going to "go after Mormons" if he was elected. If the Media did a decent job of actually reporting on facts instead of presenting opinion so much, they probably wouldn't need to worry about their jobs. They suck. They let Obama slide by for 8 years and now want to present opinion about Trump as fact.



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Re: New Sheriff

Postby BroncoBot » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:19 pm

snoscythe wrote:
BlueK wrote:
snoscythe wrote:Ryan is a tool.

Q: How many times did the House pass a bills to repeal Obamacare under Obama?
A: At least 60.

Q: How many times has the House voted to repeal Obamacare since Trump took office?
A: Zero.


It's only been one month. Might help if Trump gave him his plan as a starting point.That's what presidents usually do. The president is supposed to submit a budget. Has he? No. Trump said several weeks ago he had a Obamacare replacement almost ready. Yeah, I don't think he really did or the Congress would be working with it by now.


They've had just under 7 years to get a replacement plan teed up....

And not moving immediately on Obamacare now exposes the waste of time in voting to repeal it in the past---what was their plan back then? Oh, yeah--they were never serious, they were just scoring political points with no real plan in place. Ladies and Gentlemen --- YOUR Republican Party!!

+1, minus Rand Paul who actually has presented a decent plan for repeal replace, the republicans were happy to seem irritated by the ACA with no real objection to it besides trying to score political points.



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Re: New Sheriff

Postby BroncoBot » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:22 pm

snoscythe wrote:So, now we're okay with presidents who refuse to enforce laws they disagree with?

AGreed, Just repeal now, or repeal with one year buffer to get a replacement figured out. If a replacement isn't acceptable in a year, it is null and void.



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Re: New Sheriff

Postby BlueK » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:43 am

BroncoBot wrote:
BlueK wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:IIf you want real freedom like what the founding fathers believed in then you should hope Trump is successful in his endeavors.

This is the most interesting part of your post to me. I am a conservative libertarian and place this principle pretty much at the top of the list. I am a Constitutional originalist. To me, Trump is mostly the opposite of this. I feel like his very hostile comments about the press are meant to lay the groundwork for eventually eliminating freedom of the press.

You're listening to the panicking press too much. Just like a lot of people here thought Trump was going to "go after Mormons" if he was elected. If the Media did a decent job of actually reporting on facts instead of presenting opinion so much, they probably wouldn't need to worry about their jobs. They suck. They let Obama slide by for 8 years and now want to present opinion about Trump as fact.


He's just getting his followers riled up against the press so he can later plant the suggestion of doing away with that freedom altogether. Oh sure, it won't happen overnight. It will be in small steps, but maybe it will be ok to start passing unconstitutional laws to punish them for saying what he doesn't like. Same with speech. It's what Putin did to Russia. He's following the same playbook.

He gets his political ideas from Steve Bannon who has written that his aim has been to bring European far-right nationalism into America, which is not a political philosophy that has roots in this country. It actually comes out of 20s and 30s European fascism, and as such is fundamentally opposed to things like free speech or press.

If you're familiar with what Steve Bannon has written and said, along with others who buy into the same ideas, and if you have seen what Putin did to the weak Russian democracy of the 1990s, and then you listen to Trump's words of praise for Putin, it's not that hard to see what is happening. But we can agree to disagree. I will be supportive of anything that makes sense (like deregulation, repealing Obamacare, etc.) and totally opposed to anything that runs against the Constitution. I have faith that America is much stronger in its Consitutional systems and freedoms than Russia was. But it doesn't mean I have to like it when Trump says things like "so-called judges" or his little spokesboy says crap like the President cannot be questioned.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble...

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Re: New Sheriff

Postby Ddawg » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:19 am

BlueK wrote:He's just getting his followers riled up against the press so he can later plant the suggestion of doing away with that freedom altogether. Oh sure, it won't happen overnight. It will be in small steps, but maybe it will be ok to start passing unconstitutional laws to punish them for saying what he doesn't like. Same with speech. It's what Putin did to Russia. He's following the same playbook.

He gets his political ideas from Steve Bannon who has written that his aim has been to bring European far-right nationalism into America, which is not a political philosophy that has roots in this country. It actually comes out of 20s and 30s European fascism, and as such is fundamentally opposed to things like free speech or press.


I'm so certain what you predict will never happen under Trump - I'll make you a wager and put money on it. I think it's very revealing that you anti-Trump folks like to make all kinds of wild and dramatic predictions -- but don't back it up with real conviction.

When Trump tweeted the news media "is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American people" - it caused seizures on the left and the anti-Trump folks bristled. Personally, I think Trump is not far off the mark.

Did you know Politico took a poll in 2016 of the White House press corps. There are 72 "journalists" assigned to the White House press corps. Not one of them is a registered Republican. Think there is some bias there?

Polls over the years have shown -
1. 29% of Americans think news media get their facts straight all the time.
2. 15% of Americans think the media is fair.
3. Nine out of 10 Americans think the news media have their own public policy agenda/positions and try to influence public opinion.
4. In 1992 89% of Washington based reporters voted for Bill Clinton.
5. In 2004 Washington based reporters voted for Kerry over Bush 12 to 1.
6. In 2013 a poll of 1,080 journalists (print, tv network, online journalists) showed 7% identified as Republican.

What you are predicting here is Trump will eliminate the 1st Amendment - bit by bit. Not going to happen.

I am so positive Trump will make no effort to weaken or eliminate the 1st Amendment - I'm willing to make you a bet. I already tried to bet Hawking on one of his predictions and he didn't have the stomach for it.

So, I'll bet you $1,000 per year that 4 years from now the 1st Amendment will be intact and stand as it does now - unaltered. So, after year 1 - you will pay me $1,000 if the 1st Amendment is unchanged. Year 2 you pay me another $1,000 if the 1st Amendment is unchanged, and so on. At the end of the Trump presidency you will have paid me $4,000.

If the 1st Amendment is altered, abridged, or done away with, I will pay you $4,000 total. I will keep my end of the bargain.

Interested?



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snoscythe
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Re: New Sheriff

Postby snoscythe » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:30 am

Here is what Trump is fighting. This was said on MSNBC yesterday, and no one blinked an eye:

Mika Brzezinski wrote:[Trump] is trying to undermine the media and trying to make up his own facts. And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, he could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job.


MSNBC, and media in general, believes it is their role to control what the public thinks.



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Re: New Sheriff

Postby Ddawg » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:14 pm

snoscythe wrote:Here is what Trump is fighting. This was said on MSNBC yesterday, and no one blinked an eye:

Mika Brzezinski wrote:[Trump] is trying to undermine the media and trying to make up his own facts. And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, he could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job.


MSNBC, and media in general, believes it is their role to control what the public thinks.


Exactly. I saw that this morning and considered including it in my post - Thank you Snow. You are my hero. The MSM is arrogant, very liberal, and view us "common" folks are beneath their superior abilities to discern and distill what is true and correct. Hogwash. They live in a liberal echo chamber.




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