Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by Ddawg » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:04 pm

jvquarterback wrote: you're beyond reason but I'll try again.
Quite a statement considering we've never met, or had a conversation. Do you make wild assumptions about people all the time?

jvquarterback wrote: I've asked you guys this before and you never answer because you're beyond reason but I'll try again.

What percentage of terrorist acts perpetrated by Muslims have been committed in countries without a military presence in the middle east? That answer should drive the whole of US policy in the middle east.
Let's see, just off the top of my head, as I recall -

How about the Philippines? True, they was part of the coalition army in 2003-2004 (a grand total of 51 troops for exactly 1 year.). But, the Muslim terrorist group (Abu Sayyaf) began operating in the Philippines in 1991. Long before the short, limited military presence in the Middle East.

How about Nigeria? Chad? Niger? They seem to have a serious problem with Islamic Boko Haram and terrorism. I don't recall Nigeria, Chad, or Niger sending coalition troops to the Middle East.

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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by jvquarterback » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:55 am

Ddawg wrote:How about the Philippines? True, they was part of the coalition army in 2003-2004 (a grand total of 51 troops for exactly 1 year.). But, the Muslim terrorist group (Abu Sayyaf) began operating in the Philippines in 1991. Long before the short, limited military presence in the Middle East.
Nice one. The founder of Abu Sayyaf was trained by US soldiers in Afghanistan during the 1980s. I don't think the argument against US intervention in the ME gets any better than that. The group fights a war that has been going on the since the 1950s (some say since the early 1900s) when the Filipino presidents (with US backing -- imagine that) began resettling landless Christian Filipinos in an area that was initially 98% Muslim. The ensuing violence has nothing to do with Jihadism, only with people fighting against forced colonization.

It's crap like this that passes for an argument for more involvement in the ME. And it proves 1) you haven't ever read more than a blurb about somebody mentioning there are "muslim extremists" in the Philippines, 2) you're beyond reason, or 3) you're an arms dealer interested in selling your garbage.
Ddawg wrote:How about Nigeria? Chad? Niger? They seem to have a serious problem with Islamic Boko Haram and terrorism. I don't recall Nigeria, Chad, or Niger sending coalition troops to the Middle East.
Muslims have been there for a little while don't ya think?

So many Americans hear Muslim Extremism and start salivating like Pavlov's dogs. They don't give a second thought to the idea that there are generational grievances these people have against each other that are in no way related to religion, and even if they were based in religion, who cares? They pose absolutely no threat the the US. Maybe to someone's job in the military-congressional-industrial complex, but absolutely no threat to the US as long as we don't intervene.
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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by scott715 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:15 pm

And some of us have no idea what the truth is or what is happening behind closed doors. I don't know but I want the problem solved. I suspect it will never be fixed but at least we can refuse to contribute to it.

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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by rjaando » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 am



A visual for a comparison of Islam vs the west.

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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by Cougarfan87 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:23 pm

rjaando wrote:


A visual for a comparison of Islam vs the west.
So, if I understand the point of the video, the hypothesis is that jihad has always been the Muslim way of evangelizing the world, and continues to this day. One can infer from this film that Muslim aggression would continue regardless of whether or not countries were involved in Middle Eastern affairs.

It is an interesting hypothesis. I am not sure I believe that modern muslims, outside of the extremists, consider a physical violent jihad the appropriate way to evangelize their beliefs, at least not from any of them that I have known. I believe attacks are carried out by a very slim minority, perhaps with the approval of a larger yet still minor part of the people.

The question, then, is why do extremists select the targets they do? I suppose the best way to answer that question would be to ask an extremist. I have no inclination to talk to an extremist. Perhaps the second best way is to listen to them when they explain why the carried out attacks. I haven't studied any of that in depth, nor do I care to, but I believe there are several reasons cited for their attacks. While support of Israel and military actions in countries containing large populations of muslims are part of the reason, I also believe I have heard the attacks due to our liberal culture, which is very much an affront to the muslim religion. The U.S. is cited as the great Satan, not just for its involvement in the Middle East, but for the very freedom that allows people to choose good and evil. Perhaps there is even, below the surface, a sense of jealousy that an infidel nation can be so prosperous...which may be a challenge to the very legitimacy of the muslim religion in the eyes of extremists.

In short, it is a complex issue, with some things that we could do to mitigate hostility towards us, but I don't think we could ever totally eliminate hostility towards us.
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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by jvquarterback » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:12 pm

This isn't complex.

Number of guerrilla warfare actions against the US by "jihadists" prior to CIA interventions in the ME during the 1940-50s: Zero.

Number of guerrilla warfare actions against the US by "jihadists" since CIA interventions in the ME during the 1940-50s: Lots.
Last edited by jvquarterback on Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by snoscythe » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:28 pm

Define "guerrilla warfare actions" as you are using it. Either we're talking about different things, or you aren't aware of the Moro guerrilla actions against the US in the Philippines ca. 1900.

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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by SpiffCoug » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:40 pm

snoscythe wrote:Define "guerrilla warfare actions" as you are using it. Either we're talking about different things, or you aren't aware of the Moro guerrilla actions against the US in the Philippines ca. 1900.
I wonder the Marines and Navy considered the Barbary pirates to utilize guerrilla tactics as well?
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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by Ddawg » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:51 am

jvquarterback wrote: Nice one. The founder of Abu Sayyaf was trained by US soldiers in Afghanistan during the 1980s. I don't think the argument against US intervention in the ME gets any better than that. The group fights a war that has been going on the since the 1950s (some say since the early 1900s) when the Filipino presidents (with US backing -- imagine that) began resettling landless Christian Filipinos in an area that was initially 98% Muslim. The ensuing violence has nothing to do with Jihadism, only with people fighting against forced colonization.

It's crap like this that passes for an argument for more involvement in the ME. And it proves 1) you haven't ever read more than a blurb about somebody mentioning there are "muslim extremists" in the Philippines, 2) you're beyond reason, or 3) you're an arms dealer interested in selling your garbage.
Ha ha ha! Quite hostile aren't you?

Exactly what makes your the expert from on high? Impress me with your expertise.

Thank you.

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Re: Secretary of State - Have you learned the lesson of the Iraq War.

Post by jvquarterback » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:56 am

snoscythe wrote:Define "guerrilla warfare actions" as you are using it. Either we're talking about different things, or you aren't aware of the Moro guerrilla actions against the US in the Philippines ca. 1900.
That's what happens when you begin colonizing places. What's going on now is no different than Native American resistance to Christian settlers in the Americas. The point is that when you antagonize people in their ancestral lands they aren't going to like you very much and it has nothing to do with their religion.
Ddawg wrote:Quite hostile aren't you?
In case it's escaped your notice, I'm the one arguing against hostility.
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