Libertarians and gender neutral locker rooms

[jvquarterback]

The greater sin is when these kids have no options for sports, music or other preforming arts.

So now it's a sin not to have sports paid for by your neighbor? And people wonder so many feel entitled.

[ABYUFAN]

The greater sin is when these kids have no options for sports, music or other preforming arts.

So now it's a sin not to have sports paid for by your neighbor? And people wonder so many feel entitled.

No - I pay a ton of taxes into the education system. Over my lifetime I will pay far more into the educational system than my children used for their K- 12 education - and its not even close. My kids have never set foot in a music classroom, or drama department. But I would be hoppin' mad if those departments were done away with.

My position is that it would be a sin if all of that money that I pay into the system provided a substandard education to the very children that it's supposed to benefit. The actual entitlement is the folks who want to take full advantage of the system that we have here, but cutting out random things that they (and they alone) find superfluous.

[jvquarterback]

So it's a sin if people take your money and don't use it the way you want?

Sounds like we agree and you're a libertarian. Taxation is theft.

[ABYUFAN]

So it's a sin if people take your money and don't use it the way you want?

Sounds like we agree and you're a libertarian. Taxation is theft.

First, they don't "take" my money. I gladly pay my money through taxes. It's a largely honor system that I gladly comply with. I honestly love paying taxes, in that I see the utility to them. I've been places where there are no taxes, and I've seen the problems that are there.

Second, there's a big difference between using something "ineffectively" and using it "the way you want"... but nice try.

Fortunately, we both know that what you say above actually is your best argument, and we both know that it's a lousy one.

[jvquarterback]

An honor system? Nice one. You do realize what they do to people who don't "gladly pay their taxes."

All I'm going to say here is my argument is better argument than "I want you to want to subsidize my kid's sports program. And if you don't gladly subsidize along with me I'll take your house and send you to jail."

I mean, you gladly pay your taxes to support ridiculously expensive sports programs for your kids. Why shouldn't everyone else?

[Schmoe]

I've always thought it is stupid for schools to have sport's teams and locker rooms. If you want your kid in sports pay for it yourself.

And phys ed? No, not important?

Completely unnecessary. And even if you think it is the cost is outrageous. It costs, what $50 a month at the Y for a whole family? And you want to pay a union PE teacher 80k + benefits and finance a gym, locker rooms, fields and stadium?.

PE doesn't require a stadium, a PE teacher isn't making close to 80k unless they have a PhD and have been teaching for 25 years, and study after study shows how valuable PE (and music, arts, etc.) are for students.

[snoscythe]

I've always thought it is stupid for schools to have sport's teams and locker rooms. If you want your kid in sports pay for it yourself.

And phys ed? No, not important?

Completely unnecessary. And even if you think it is the cost is outrageous. It costs, what $50 a month at the Y for a whole family? And you want to pay a union PE teacher 80k + benefits and finance a gym, locker rooms, fields and stadium?.

PE doesn't require a stadium, a PE teacher isn't making close to 80k unless they have a PhD and have been teaching for 25 years, and study after study shows how valuable PE (and music, arts, etc.) are for students.

Not to mention that the Y gets a hefty bit of support from our taxes as well.

http://www.ymca.net/news-releases/20110915-grant.html

[ABYUFAN]

An honor system? Nice one. You do realize what they do to people who don't "gladly pay their taxes."

Only if you are lousy at "not paying your taxes. Millions of people do it every year and don't get caught.

I'll I'm going to say here is my argument is better argument than "I want you to want to subsidize my kid's sports program. And if you don't gladly subsidize along with me I'll take your house and send you to jail."



I mean, you gladly pay your taxes to support ridiculously expensive sports programs for your kids. Why shouldn't everyone else?

LOL "ridiculously expensive" You know what some of the other things that are "ridiculously expensive?" Dams. Bridges. Cancer research. Medical helicopters. Crop production. The dairy industry. Do we let you start cutting some of those things out too, and not based on any sort of actual empirical evidence, but instead based solely on your inability to see value in it?

[jvquarterback]

PE doesn't require a stadium, a PE teacher isn't making close to 80k unless they have a PhD and have been teaching for 25 years, and study after study shows how valuable PE (and music, arts, etc.) are for students.

80K is the least any union PE teacher is making with benefits. I guess you're right they could be pulling down 120K if they have a PhD. And of course the biased educators are going to find benefits for what they teach.

I see some benefit from PE teachers but here's the real question: how much would you be willing to pay them on free market? I know how much I pay for my kids' basketball, softball, soccer, golf, etc. and I'm happy to pay it and volunteer my time to help out. I'm unwilling to force anyone else to pay for it under threat of incarceration and theft of their property.

Not to mention that the Y gets a hefty bit of support from our taxes as well.

http://www.ymca.net/news-releases/20110915-grant.html

I knew someone would bring this up after I wrote it. Well you've gotta have somewhere for the he/shes to shower.

[ABYUFAN]

I see some benefit from PE teachers but here's the real question: how much would you be willing to pay them on free market? I know how much I pay for my kids' basketball, softball, soccer, golf, etc. and I'm happy to pay it and volunteer my time to help out. I'm unwilling to force anyone else to pay for it under threat of incarceration and theft of their property.

Every single one of those things that you mention are highly subsidized, usually through the municipality in which they're located. And those subsidies are through city or county general fund money raised by taxes. So you like using other people's tax monies for your kids activities, just not at school. DO you honestly think that your volunteer time on the baseball diamond covers the cost of building and maintain the park? Same question with the golf course, basketball court and soccer field?