Libertarians and gender neutral locker rooms

[hawkwing]

In doing some research this weekend I came to the realization/understanding that the Libertarian party supports gender neutral bathrooms and locker rooms for public/government operated bathrooms. Obviously there is a lot of room in the Libertarian party for people to disagree with on issues so I've been trying to get feedback from the polite, intelligent Libertarians that I know.

For our Libertarian users here how do you feel about that?

[HoosierCougar]

I have a hard time affiliating wholly with any political party at the exclusion of all others, but I am pretty Libertarian...

On the gender neutral locker room issue, I don't know where the Libertarian party stands. I haven't delved into that and likely won't, because I have my own moral position on it, regardless of what any party says.

I will say that the LDS church took a hard line on the ERA and one of the key talking points was that it would eliminate the very ability of organizations to separate men and women on the basis of gender (in living quarters, restrooms, locker rooms, etc.)

I see this latest move as anti-liberty, because it proscribes behavior, rather than letting individuals determine the best course for themselves.

My prediction is that we'll start seeing more "family-style" restrooms that can be used by anyone and eventually, the days of mass restrooms will be over.

HC's $0.02

[Mars]

My view:

Have Men's bathrooms. Have Women's bathrooms. Allow transgender individuals to use whichever bathroom they are more comfortable in. The End.

[scott715]

How about giving them the bushes?

[hawkwing]

My view:

Have Men's bathrooms. Have Women's bathrooms. Allow transgender individuals to use whichever bathroom they are more comfortable in. The End.

Is that the same with locker rooms or no?

[snoscythe]

I don't get the bathroom hubbub. Your son is more likely to be molested by another male in the men's restroom than your daughter is to be molested by a male in the women's restroom.

You accompany your kids to the restroom until they are old enough to watch out for themselves. Don't rely on corporations and government to keep your kids safe in public restrooms--if you do, you're an idiot.

Nothing in recent months in this transgender restroom debate changes any of that. It's a bunch of moral crusaders on both sides of a non-issue making a tempest in a teapot.

[jvquarterback]

The libertarian argument (as with anything else) would be that this is a property issue and any private individual or group may exclude anyone they want from their property. Problem solved.

Libertarians don't believe in government owned lands. Problem solved.

[hawkwing]

I don't get the bathroom hubbub. Your son is more likely to be molested by another male in the men's restroom than your daughter is to be molested by a male in the women's restroom.

You accompany your kids to the restroom until they are old enough to watch out for themselves. Don't rely on corporations and government to keep your kids safe in public restrooms--if you do, you're an idiot.

Nothing in recent months in this transgender restroom debate changes any of that. It's a bunch of moral crusaders on both sides of a non-issue making a tempest in a teapot.

You actually intend to accompany your daughter into the restroom and LOCKER ROOM (which if you'll notice this thread is about, not restrooms) every day at school? You must have a great job to allow yourself that flexibility.

[hawkwing]

The libertarian argument (as with anything else) would be that this is a property issue and any private individual or group may exclude anyone they want from their property. Problem solved.

Libertarians don't believe in government owned lands. Problem solved.

Not entirely true. At least not according to the mainstream Libertarian party platform which states that they believe in all federal programs and institutions as defined in the Constitution which requires having government owned property. As well as many say that things like Education and schools should be left to the States along with voucher programs to provide for public and private schooling (at the state level) which still means state owned and operated schools.

Now clearly some people are obviously even more "Libertarian" than the Libertarian party, more on the anarchy spectrum.

[snoscythe]

I don't get the bathroom hubbub. Your son is more likely to be molested by another male in the men's restroom than your daughter is to be molested by a male in the women's restroom.

You accompany your kids to the restroom until they are old enough to watch out for themselves. Don't rely on corporations and government to keep your kids safe in public restrooms--if you do, you're an idiot.

Nothing in recent months in this transgender restroom debate changes any of that. It's a bunch of moral crusaders on both sides of a non-issue making a tempest in a teapot.

You actually intend to accompany your daughter into the restroom and LOCKER ROOM (which if you'll notice this thread is about, not restrooms) every day at school? You must have a great job to allow yourself that flexibility.

Ummm....nearly every post including the OP mentions restrooms as well. Sorry to offend you by talking about restrooms. Maybe we can make this thread a safe-space for people who only want to talk about locker rooms?

I think you also missed the part about how we accompany our kids "until they are old enough to watch out for themselves." By the time my kids start kindergarten, they know that they use a stall with a door (that works) no matter what, and if there is someone in there that makes them uncomfortable, they ask the teacher if they can use another restroom or ask to see the nurse. This issue of vulnerability in restrooms didn't suddenly appear in the last year--it's been around since the first public restroom, and I say shame on parents who are just now starting to worry about it.

By the time my kids are in middle school where they actually have locker rooms, they'll know what to do there as well--if anyone is in the locker room that makes you uncomfortable, you change in the bathroom stall with a door, and if there is no other option, come straight home to shower and change. It's the same thing my parents taught me and my siblings, and it's what we'll teach our kids.