Trump 42%, Clinton 39%, Johnson 10%

[jvquarterback]

I would say that I advocate adoption. For many too poor to raise a child, this is a much better option than either abortion or parenting.

So you're for increased crime. I'm shocked. We need to do everything we can to decrease crime. You should be advocating for a 100% abortion rate to completely eliminate crime.

[hawkwing]

I would say that I advocate adoption. For many too poor to raise a child, this is a much better option than either abortion or parenting.

So you're for increased crime. I'm shocked. We need to do everything we can to decrease crime. You should be advocating for a 100% abortion rate to completely eliminate crime.

I sometimes wonder if jv is a real person or just a troll bot, but most of his recruiting tweets are fantastic. It must be very discouraging to the other Libertarians on this site to have him as the face of Libertarianism to Cougar Nation. But maybe not, maybe he captures the essence perfectly.

[snoscythe]

I would say that I advocate adoption. For many too poor to raise a child, this is a much better option than either abortion or parenting.

So you're for increased crime. I'm shocked. We need to do everything we can to decrease crime. You should be advocating for a 100% abortion rate to completely eliminate crime.

[jvquarterback]

I would say that I advocate adoption. For many too poor to raise a child, this is a much better option than either abortion or parenting.

So you're for increased crime. I'm shocked. We need to do everything we can to decrease crime. You should be advocating for a 100% abortion rate to completely eliminate crime.

I sometimes wonder if jv is a real person or just a troll bot, but most of his recruiting tweets are fantastic. It must be very discouraging to the other Libertarians on this site to have him as the face of Libertarianism to Cougar Nation. But maybe not, maybe he captures the essence perfectly.

Let me give you a summary of the debate here so you can understand the sarcasm of my quote above.

Mars cites fabricated data to say abortion reduces crime. I say the data are fabricated and there is no such correlation, let alone any causation. Mars says he still believes the fabricated data anyway and makes a recommendation (that I agree with) which is completely unsupported by his argument which is based on the fabricated data. I make a sarcastic comment deriding Mars' unsupported conclusion to his argument.

The key points to take home here are 1) There is no correlation between abortion and crime rates in the data presented by the freakonomincs losers. 2) Mars won't admit the data used by Levitt and Donohoe are fabricated despite their admission, the admission of the editors who initially reviewed their paper, and the people who discovered their misrepresentation and then properly reviewed that specific data set and showed a lack of correlation.

[Mars]

It's difficult to find many scientific studies that other scientific studies don't disagree with. Scientists can't even agree whether red wine is good for you or bad for you. Crime rose in Romania when they banned abortion. It dropped in America when abortion was legalized. It dropped first in states that allowed it first. It dropped most in states that made it easiest. The correlation isn't in question, only the causality, of which I've stated that there are many. But most studied have shown very minor impact in this case (police, laws, jails, etc).

[jvquarterback]

It's difficult to find many scientific studies that other scientific studies don't disagree with..

We're not talking about studies that show different results from different data sets. We're talking about manipulation and misrepresentation of a single data set that does not show what the authors purported.

[Mars]

One rebuttal (Lott and Whitley 2001) was that they overestimated the effect and... at most the effect was 2/3 of what Levitt previously reported.

Scientist #1: I discovered 100 bones!
Scientist #2: Upon closer inspection, that looks more like 66 bones.
jvquarterback: Bones don't exist!

[jvquarterback]

Scientist #1: I discovered 0.023 bones!
Scientist #2: Upon closer inspection, that looks more like 0.007 bones but the data are so foggy we can't really say whether there are any bones at all.
Scientist #3: Scientist #1 lied about there being any bones at all.
NPR producer/Scientist #1: Yes I lied the first time but believe me this time, there are 0.012 bones.
Scientist #3: Nope you lied again. There aren't any bones. And you're really bad at math.
Scientist #4: I may have found 0.008 bones . . . oh wait nevermind, the data are too foggy. We can't tell if there are any bones. But at least I have a shred of self respect and am a scientist, not some turd paid by planned parenthood.

Mars: Kill the babies! I believe the NPR prod ... I mean Planned Parenthood exec ... I mean scientist #1.

[snoscythe]