CougarCorner

SpiffCoug wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:30 pm One kid being poorly treated I leaned towards siding with the Chatmans. Now that we have a second kid being poorly treated it gives me pause to wonder if it wasn't BYU that was the issue. Because now we have potentially another common denominator that isn't BYU.

Fair and valid point.

We have to remember this is a dad, and dads are never bias-free.

Some of his complaints break down when I look at them a bit harder. BYU gave Jessica a hard time about academics, so he counters with the fact that she earned her associates degree in high school. While a noteworthy accomplishment, earning an associates degree doesn't mean you had good grades. It just means you made a plan early on to accomplish something and followed through with it. You could be a straight-C student and leave high school with an associates degree.

frdbtr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:11 am DComing home early is a different story because sometimes you can't help that and from what I've seen everyone who has come home early has had to do it because of a medical reason.

Not to open a can of worms or derail the thread, but I've never understood what kind of a medical condition (barring mental health) would mean that you can't complete a mission but you can compete at the highest level of collegiate athletics.

I've always thought the medical reason thing was a smokescreen. And it's too bad that an athlete feels they have to throw up a smokescreen rather than being honest with themselves and others or just telling people it's none of their business. That's as much a comment on our LDS norms and culture rather than the athlete.

Regarding Chatman - I suspect that at its core, this was a mission issue scholarship crunch. Everything else is just Dad venting. The mission/scholarship tension is a lot easier to manage in football because there are so many of them which allows greater fungibility. I wish that bballers were encouraged to go even after they said they weren't planning on it, but I understand the need to plan from the coaches' perspective. And if a kid changes their mind, it isn't fair to have to revoke a scholarship from someone else that's been offered. I imagine the coaches would tell players that if they change their mind, the team will accommodate if they can but can't make any guarantees.

Jessica Chatman wasn't kicked off the team, it doesn't seem. Her scholarship essentially expired because she changed her timetable. Why couldn't she have continued as a walk-on and continued to earn her place in the rotation? It's not like BYU is really THAT expensive. Tuition is $2700. But if she wants to go somewhere else where she wouldn't even incur that debt, that's fine too. Just saying, there are choices, consequences and solutions. None of that needs to cause rifts.

CrimsonCoug wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:04 pm

frdbtr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:11 am DComing home early is a different story because sometimes you can't help that and from what I've seen everyone who has come home early has had to do it because of a medical reason.

Not to open a can of worms or derail the thread, but I've never understood what kind of a medical condition (barring mental health) would mean that you can't complete a mission but you can compete at the highest level of collegiate athletics.

I've always thought the medical reason thing was a smokescreen. And it's too bad that an athlete feels they have to throw up a smokescreen rather than being honest with themselves and others or just telling people it's none of their business. That's as much a comment on our LDS norms and culture rather than the athlete.

Regarding Chatman - I suspect that at its core, this was a mission issue scholarship crunch. Everything else is just Dad venting. The mission/scholarship tension is a lot easier to manage in football because there are so many of them which allows greater fungibility. I wish that bballers were encouraged to go even after they said they weren't planning on it, but I understand the need to plan from the coaches' perspective. And if a kid changes their mind, it isn't fair to have to revoke a scholarship from someone else that's been offered. I imagine the coaches would tell players that if they change their mind, the team will accommodate if they can but can't make any guarantees.

Jessica Chatman wasn't kicked off the team, it doesn't seem. Her scholarship essentially expired because she changed her timetable. Why couldn't she have continued as a walk-on and continued to earn her place in the rotation? It's not like BYU is really THAT expensive. Tuition is $2700. But if she wants to go somewhere else where she wouldn't even incur that debt, that's fine too. Just saying, there are choices, consequences and solutions. None of that needs to cause rifts.

Depression

frdbtr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:47 pm

CrimsonCoug wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:04 pm

frdbtr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:11 am DComing home early is a different story because sometimes you can't help that and from what I've seen everyone who has come home early has had to do it because of a medical reason.

Not to open a can of worms or derail the thread, but I've never understood what kind of a medical condition (barring mental health) would mean that you can't complete a mission but you can compete at the highest level of collegiate athletics.

I've always thought the medical reason thing was a smokescreen. And it's too bad that an athlete feels they have to throw up a smokescreen rather than being honest with themselves and others or just telling people it's none of their business. That's as much a comment on our LDS norms and culture rather than the athlete.

Regarding Chatman - I suspect that at its core, this was a mission issue scholarship crunch. Everything else is just Dad venting. The mission/scholarship tension is a lot easier to manage in football because there are so many of them which allows greater fungibility. I wish that bballers were encouraged to go even after they said they weren't planning on it, but I understand the need to plan from the coaches' perspective. And if a kid changes their mind, it isn't fair to have to revoke a scholarship from someone else that's been offered. I imagine the coaches would tell players that if they change their mind, the team will accommodate if they can but can't make any guarantees.

Jessica Chatman wasn't kicked off the team, it doesn't seem. Her scholarship essentially expired because she changed her timetable. Why couldn't she have continued as a walk-on and continued to earn her place in the rotation? It's not like BYU is really THAT expensive. Tuition is $2700. But if she wants to go somewhere else where she wouldn't even incur that debt, that's fine too. Just saying, there are choices, consequences and solutions. None of that needs to cause rifts.

Depression

By the way, now that missionaries are leaving home in droves at 18, without much more than a camping trip marking the time longest spent away from home depression/home sickness/anxiety are going to be big issues in the future.

More kids are going to come home, and we have to prepare ourselves to be sympathetic to that.

frdbtr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:11 am Dave Rose's policy on missions is clear. You commit to go or not to go during recruitment and if you change your mind, he reminds you of your commitment and asks to to hold to it. If you go against what you had originally committed to do, you don't get preferential treatment. Coming home early is a different story because sometimes you can't help that and from what I've seen everyone who has come home early has had to do it because of a medical reason. I don't see any reason to blame a current transfer into the program as the reason for a transfer out. IMO, I don't see anything wrong with Rose managing the mission scholarships the way he does. It is a hard thing to manage, something that most schools refuse to bother with.

As far as the daughter is concerned, that story sounded really unfortunate. I don't follow women's basketball but perception is reality and appears she was not treated fairly. I wish her good luck where she ended up and feel it is a travesty that Jeff is bitter towards the school now. His tweets about BYU when he was a fan were really fun.

For Jordan Chatman, BYU law school was the issue. As part of the admissions and acceptance process, you have to sign a contract with the law school in which you promise to devote full time and attention to law school your first year - no job (not even part-time) or other significant extracurricular activities. I don't blame Rose for that.

HOWEVER, BYU and its coaches should absolutely be the most accommodating in the world to a player who flips and decides TO SERVE an LDS mission. If athletes are pushed out because of surprise decisions to serve, that is a tremendous disappointment.

Basketball is not fifth, apparently.

Brayden Green wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:17 pm By the way, now that missionaries are leaving home in droves at 18, without much more than a camping trip marking the time longest spent away from home depression/home sickness/anxiety are going to be big issues in the future.

More kids are going to come home, and we have to prepare ourselves to be sympathetic to that.

Absolutely. There needs to be a welcoming place in our families, wards, and neighborhoods for these individuals.

We also need to do more as parents to give youth the opportunity to accomplish hard things...or to at least perform hard work...in extended settings away from home. And, just because the mission age was dropped doesn't mean that every young man is ready to serve a mission right away because of a birthday.

Hawk says the Law School excuse from BYU about Chatman was not fully true.

Mars wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:57 pm Hawk says the Law School excuse from BYU about Chatman was not fully true.

I like Hawk but I want to see some proof of this to believe it.

byufan4ever wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Mars wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:57 pm Hawk says the Law School excuse from BYU about Chatman was not fully true.

I like Hawk but I want to see some proof of this to believe it.

Wow, I can't believe you don't like me!