It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

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hawkwing
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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by hawkwing » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:53 am

frdbtr wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
frdbtr wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
frdbtr wrote:
hawkwing wrote:If defense is the dirty little secret it's the worst kept secret in history. Everyone I know recognizes the fact that the last time BYU had an exceptional season was the last year they played defense.

Why Rose continues to abandon defense in search of terrible offensive choices is the real question.
I don't think Rose is abandoning defense. I think he isn't as much of a disciplinarian as he used to be and the team isn't putting forth the effort they used to. We will see if the coaching change changes that.
I don't think he's abandoning defense either, I think he's never understood or had defense. But I do agree with you that he has clearly lost his desire to be a disciplinarian and who can blame him, trying to get 18-25 year old kids to work hard all the time would be mentally taxing.
Then how did the 2010 team and before all have good defenses. the 2010 team and earlier always seemed to have a knack for taking away an opposing teams strength. You mentioned early that defense was not a "dirty little secret" and now you say that he has never had or understood defense. Sounds kind of contradictory to me.
Not contradictory at all. Prior to 2010 Rose had an assistant coach that he allowed to handle the defense and allowed that coach to use the players in playing defense. That coach moved on and with it the team's only advocate for defense. Rose has never replaced that valuing offense more than defense.
And I disagree that a guy who has played and coached College basketball at the highest level, doesn't understand defense. You can't play in the NC game as a starter on the "phi slamma jamma" and coach a JC team to the JC college national championship, and a DIV 1 team to the sweet 16 without knowing how to coach defense. There is something else going on that is not as simplistic as Rose hates defense and doesn't know how to coach it.
Okay, in that case he has just become incredibly complacent and incompetent at coaching defense over the last several years.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by frdbtr » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:05 am

My point is, none of us know what has happened. We don't know if the players that he has recruited simply don't have the ability to run the defense that he wants to run and that is why he has tried all these gimmick defenses. We don't know if the players don't put the effort into defense like they used to, we don't know if the coaches have forgotten how to coach defense, we just don't know. My point is, we currently have the winningest coach BYU has ever had by percentage and I am not ready to start calling for his head because of a fans perspective on how he coaches defense right now.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by hawkwing » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:37 am

frdbtr wrote:My point is, none of us know what has happened. We don't know if the players that he has recruited simply don't have the ability to run the defense that he wants to run and that is why he has tried all these gimmick defenses. We don't know if the players don't put the effort into defense like they used to, we don't know if the coaches have forgotten how to coach defense, we just don't know. My point is, we currently have the winningest coach BYU has ever had by percentage and I am not ready to start calling for his head because of a fans perspective on how he coaches defense right now.
So he either can't coach defense, can't coach defense like he used to, or can't recruit well enough to bring in the players needed to compete defensively at the college level.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by frdbtr » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 pm

hawkwing wrote:
frdbtr wrote:My point is, none of us know what has happened. We don't know if the players that he has recruited simply don't have the ability to run the defense that he wants to run and that is why he has tried all these gimmick defenses. We don't know if the players don't put the effort into defense like they used to, we don't know if the coaches have forgotten how to coach defense, we just don't know. My point is, we currently have the winningest coach BYU has ever had by percentage and I am not ready to start calling for his head because of a fans perspective on how he coaches defense right now.
So he either can't coach defense, can't coach defense like he used to, or can't recruit well enough to bring in the players needed to compete defensively at the college level.
This is how you take a perfectly reasonable outlook on things and make it look negative. Take note kids. I'm done with you. I thought you were a reasonable fan Hawk, but you have lost all objectivity for coach Rose. There is no way to talk reason with this kind of an attitude.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by hawkwing » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:12 pm

frdbtr wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
frdbtr wrote:My point is, none of us know what has happened. We don't know if the players that he has recruited simply don't have the ability to run the defense that he wants to run and that is why he has tried all these gimmick defenses. We don't know if the players don't put the effort into defense like they used to, we don't know if the coaches have forgotten how to coach defense, we just don't know. My point is, we currently have the winningest coach BYU has ever had by percentage and I am not ready to start calling for his head because of a fans perspective on how he coaches defense right now.
So he either can't coach defense, can't coach defense like he used to, or can't recruit well enough to bring in the players needed to compete defensively at the college level.
This is how you take a perfectly reasonable outlook on things and make it look negative. Take note kids. I'm done with you. I thought you were a reasonable fan Hawk, but you have lost all objectivity for coach Rose. There is no way to talk reason with this kind of an attitude.
I feel like I am a reasonable fan here, perhaps you're the one who is being unreasonable? If we were talking about a year or 2 or 3 slump, I could understand that, but this is going on and getting worse every year. Now with Heath coming in there is some hope for a turnaround, but we'll have to wait and see.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by byufan4ever » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:52 am

Man, the logic some fans use in sports just amazes me. I'd hate to see some people here as business owners or managers. As much as sports is a hobby for us, it is a business. We somehow feel connected with the players, coaches, and the organization. But sometimes you have to let it go. Sometimes an organization simply needs a change or to go a different direction. That doesn't mean that the previous leader was bad. But I HATE the argument that just because someone had X number of great years he can stay as long as he wants. That's BS. A coach could win 20 NCs but that doesn't give him the right to get complacent for 3 or 4 seasons or even 1 season. Pretend BYU basketball is a stock and you have your retirement money invested in it. Oh yeah, I'm ok with my money going down the drain because, man, we had some great times in the past.

Now, could we do worse than Rose? Definitely. A change is not always the right move and it could end up being a change for the worse. But this isn't the Relief Society and the BYU head coach position is not a calling. I have to perform every year in my job or I'm gone. So does Coach Rose (except he has a nice severance package).

Wanting to move in a different direction does NOT mean that I don't appreciate what Rose has done for BYU or that I think that he's been a horrible coach. So please don't try to spin my words to say that.
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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by nuk13 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:59 am

byufan4ever wrote:Man, the logic some fans use in sports just amazes me. I'd hate to see some people here as business owners or managers. As much as sports is a hobby for us, it is a business. We somehow feel connected with the players, coaches, and the organization. But sometimes you have to let it go. Sometimes an organization simply needs a change or to go a different direction. That doesn't mean that the previous leader was bad. But I HATE the argument that just because someone had X number of great years he can stay as long as he wants. That's BS. A coach could win 20 NCs but that doesn't give him the right to get complacent for 3 or 4 seasons or even 1 season. Pretend BYU basketball is a stock and you have your retirement money invested in it. Oh yeah, I'm ok with my money going down the drain because, man, we had some great times in the past.

Now, could we do worse than Rose? Definitely. A change is not always the right move and it could end up being a change for the worse. But this isn't the Relief Society and the BYU head coach position is not a calling. I have to perform every year in my job or I'm gone. So does Coach Rose (except he has a nice severance package).

Wanting to move in a different direction does NOT mean that I don't appreciate what Rose has done for BYU or that I think that he's been a horrible coach. So please don't try to spin my words to say that.
You said this very well.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by EM_Puma » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:51 pm

With Schroyer now on board, I'll give Rose a pass. In my estimation he's done a descent job, but I'm constantly left with the question in my mind as whether his ability to coach is good enough. No doubt in my mind that Dave Rose is an above the average recruiter, but his lack of defense, especially this last year, really made me shake my head.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by BroncoBot » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:43 pm

byufan4ever wrote:a coach could win 20 NCs but that doesn't give him the right to get complacent for 3 or 4 seasons or even 1 season.
Uhhhhh..... I'd be OK with that.

Rose had a monumental task this last year. Newly returned missionaries, young team, shallow bench. 2016-2017 doesn't bother me. I predicted and expected a below average year. I didn't buy the whole "best recruits" we should be a final four team based on individual rankings argument. BYU did as well as I expected them to this last year. I took a lot of flack for saying BYU would lose a lot of their preseason games and that the team would likely not be used to playing. Just because one team wears BYU and the other team wears UVU doesn't guarantee a win for the cougars.

Rose is good. No reason to get rid of him.

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Re: It's Official -- Eric Mika = Gone

Post by Mars » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:23 pm

EM_Puma wrote: I'll give Rose a pass. In my estimation he's done a descent job
I'm enjoying the unintentional irony here.
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