Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by frdbtr » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:19 pm

mormonrasta wrote:
frdbtr wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
frdbtr wrote:Why can Duke swoop in at the last second and take a recruit like him when he could do just as good (or better in this case this year) at BYU?

Most famous college hoops coach: "Want to be a national name in college and then go to the NBA?"

The coach no one knows of outside of the WCC: "Ever heard of Brandon Davies?"
Then we need to change the sales pitch. Coach K has underachieved as many times as he has won a NC. There is no reason he should be able to steal Mormon recruits from BYU.
Your post gave one very compelling reason why a player would choose Duke over BYU. National Championships. Coach K has won a few. Coach Rose hasn't won a CONFERENCE tournament. From a basketball standpoint, there is no comparison.
So why wouldn't you want to be the guy who brought a championship to BYU? BYU with Jabari Parker would have been a legit final 4 team the year he went to Duke, If I remember right, he only won one game or was done in the 1st round at Duke the year he went. BYU with Frank Jackson along with the other LP3 is a legit final 4 team. There is no reason these kids need to go anywhere else.

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by YNot » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:35 pm

I believe that Frank Jackson and Jabari Parker chose Coach K over BYU (ie, not necessarily because it's "Duke"). In fact, Jabari specifically mentioned this when he announced his decision. He talked about how Coach K was in the Parker living room on a recruiting visit, showing Jabari how to move his feet and improve his game.

Coach K is a hall of fame coach. He has been hand-selected to coach the NBA all-stars at the Olympics. There's absolutely no shame to lose recruiting battles to Coach K. Coach K also realizes that LDS players can fit well into his system and the academic pressures of Duke University.

Once Coach K retires, however, I really hope BYU can land more of the top LDS players.

I'm not in the "fire Rose" camp, but what other quality LDS college basketball coaches are out there? Is Pope the heir apparent?

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by YNot » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:49 pm

I do think that Frank Jackson would have been a difference maker on both ends of the floor to help BYU avoid a couple of their bad losses and perhaps to get an extra victory or two against the likes of Illinois, USC, Santa Clara, and Valparaiso. The team would likely play more consistently and get some more production with driving to the basket and in the paint (ie, good passing and creating shots) - and have a bit more depth, with Bryant coming off the bench.

I'm not sure Jackson would have made THE difference against St. Mary's. The Gaels just owned us this season. Still, with an extra 3 or 4 wins (and fewer bad losses), I do think BYU would have been an NCAA tournament team this year with Frank Jackson, even if just barely.

If the fictional Jackson-led BYU had made the NCAA tournament, it would still be a crap shoot and depend greatly on against whom the Cougars were matched. We would definitely have the potential to pull some upsets like USC, Xavier, Michigan, or South Carolina - with just as much potential to be upset in the first round (if we were favored) by 10+ points.

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by snoscythe » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:58 pm

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by BlueK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:46 pm

snoscythe wrote:Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
Do you really think he would have sucked? Basketball is mostly about talent and then experience and then coaching, IMO. The difference probably wouldn't be that extreme. In fact, you could make a good case he gets even better numbers here because there are fewer good players.

We're going out of our way to be as negative as possible right now around here. I do understand. We had a disappointing year based on expectations. But it's funny that at Duke they're maybe even more disappointed right now about not meeting their expectations. All that talent and only one NCAA tournament win? Not good.
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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by frdbtr » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:06 pm

snoscythe wrote:Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
I actually do think that he could have been just as good here as at Duke. Who says he was "coached up"? Would Mika be a top 10 draft prospect if he had played under Coach K right now? Did you know that coach K was on the hot seat about to get fired before the Christian Laetner years? The difference between Duke and BYU right now is talent. Coach K is a good coach but I would bet that he would not thrive any better at BYU with the recruiting restrictions BYU has.

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by snoscythe » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:15 pm

BlueK wrote:
snoscythe wrote:Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
Do you really think he would have sucked?
It's apparently obvious from my post that I think FJ is and always has been the suckiest sucker who ever sucked until Coach K put his miracle hands on him and cried for the demons to exit. If he would have come to BYU he probably would be our backup sweat-mopper under the East hoop (not good enough to backup mop sweat in front of the ROC). Thanks for totally mischaracterizing what I said (that FJ would not necessarily be as good a player at BYU under Rose as he was at Duke under Krzyzewski) into something laughable. You defeated that straw man with gusto.

What player have we seen Dave Rose coach up to NBA standards? Jimmer Fredette? Brandon Davies? Kyle Collinsworth?

I'd like to know what your basis is for thinking Coach K and Coach Rose are equals when it comes to player development, cuz I don't see a lot of it going on.

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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by BlueK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:34 pm

snoscythe wrote:
BlueK wrote:
snoscythe wrote:Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
Do you really think he would have sucked?
It's apparently obvious from my post that I think FJ is and always has been the suckiest sucker who ever sucked until Coach K put his miracle hands on him and cried for the demons to exit. If he would have come to BYU he probably would be our backup sweat-mopper under the East hoop (not good enough to backup mop sweat in front of the ROC). Thanks for totally mischaracterizing what I said (that FJ would not necessarily be as good a player at BYU under Rose as he was at Duke under Krzyzewski) into something laughable. You defeated that straw man with gusto.

What player have we seen Dave Rose coach up to NBA standards? Jimmer Fredette? Brandon Davies? Kyle Collinsworth?

I'd like to know what your basis is for thinking Coach K and Coach Rose are equals when it comes to player development, cuz I don't see a lot of it going on.
Davies even getting a couple of NBA seasons at all is well beyond what anyone could reasonably expect.

I never said anything about Rose being Coach K's equal either. I just said for Duke to flop in the second round with the talent they have this year is pretty darn disappointing. It happens. It's not an exact science. Frank J would have helped BYU to be better. You can't usually add that much talent and be worse. How much, who knows. Like I said, Duke has loads of it and underachieved this year. Coach K is still a brilliant coach, but Rose isn't a failure either. I love Steve Cleveland, but Rose has been better. WAY BETTER. He was just good enough to push the expectations today beyond what they've ever been at BYU which is what allows the fans to be unhappy with a decade of NCAAs and 3 NITs. I'm old enough to remember when that would have been unheard of here. But I get it. It's human nature to always hold the bar higher. He will have to turn it around next year or he'll probably retire soon.
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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by BlueK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:13 pm

When Steve Cleveland was in his last year and the pressure was getting to him he stated that it was unreasonable for BYU fans to expect to go to the NCAAs every year. Rose then did that for six years in a row, which had never happened in BYU history. If he leaves, sure, maybe it's possible they could get better, but it's far from a given. It's far more likely it would get worse and revert to historical norms here. Just my opinion. Believe me, I totally understand why fans want more. So do I. That statement from Cleveland when he made it around 2005 annoyed the crap out of me. I'm just not ready to throw Rose under the bus. A coach like Crowton was another matter. And there is a difference with Bronco. He never set any new standards. I wouldn't have fired him either, though.
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Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

Post by frdbtr » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:35 pm

Coach K starts with 5* recruits. None of the guys you mentioned were even close to that highly rated. In fact, I would dare say that the 2010 Jimmer led team that went to the sweet 16 wouldn't have had even one player on it that would have sniffed the floor for Duke. That team was a 1 seed before Davies was suspended.

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