byufan4ever wrote:Brayden Green wrote:byufan4ever wrote:BlueK wrote:byufan4ever wrote:hawkwing wrote:As I've thought about it I've realized my expectations for Dave Rose have been out of alignment with reality. Colored by the false Jimmer positives. In reality Dave Rose is a 20-22 wins a season, NIT caliber coach, with the occasional 1 and done in the NCAA tourney.
I completely disagree with this. At one point Rose made the NCAA tourney 6 times in a row. Jimmer was not around for 6 seasons. In fact, Jimmer really only started his last two seasons; his sophomore season he didn't really start games until late into the season. Taking out Jimmer's upperclassmen seasons, Rose has averaged 24.3 wins and made the NCAA tourney 6 out of 10 times (overall he's averaged 25.4 wins and 8/12 tourney appearances).
I know we're not Duke, Kentucky, or UCLA. I know we're a mid-major in basketball. But when I look at Gonzaga, Wichita St. and Butler I think why can't we do that? Is it asking too much to be one of the best mid-majors?
I am NOT ok with a regular NIT appearance and an occasional one-and-done in the NCAA tourney. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect BYU basketball to not miss the NCAA tournament in consecutive seasons.
the transfers out of the program have hurt the depth a lot. Guinn and Beo were supposed to be walkons and Leifson wouldn't have been here at all had eveyrone stayed. Every team needs role players. What I don't agree with is the idea that Rose pushed them all out. That just isn't true. Neilson is the only one that fits that category and for good reason. You only have to read Neilson's own words at the time to understand it. The team Neilson played on at BYU was extremely thin on big men and he wanted to play a soft Euro big style where he played away from the basket and shot a lot of threes. The coaches needed him to develop an inside game, which he refused to do. So he was cut loose. He has since changed his game probably because of the shock of the scholarship loss at BYU and has done at UVU exactly what Coach Pope was trying to get him to do at BYU. Now he's a much better player. The others left on their own because they didn't want to play second fiddle to the guys coming back from missions. Chatman was probably an exception to that with the law school situation.
Rose may not have pushed them all out but to believe that he could not have done a better job at keeping them is extremely naïve. If I'm an AD at any school and see a ton of transfers out I'm extremely worried.
So if you were a 19-20 year old kid you would hang around hoping that you could *maybe* play 5 minutes a game, when 15 minutes down the road you are promised starters minutes at a 4 year university under a legit D-1 coach? And most of your friends are coming to? And you don't even need to move if you don't want to?
You're being silly if you think that Rose could have done anything to prevent this. Absolutely silly.
Go back and read my post. You didn't quote my entire comment. Yep, you're right, Rose's ability to keep players in the program is about as good as his ability to teach defense or run an offense...
I read the whole thing. I quoted the part I had a comment on. Do you feel I misrepresented something? That wasn't my intent. Of you are referring to the part that the LP3 isn't a lock, well, they basically are. They are hands down the best players on the team not named Childs, even before everyone transfered out. 19 and 20 year olds don't want to be told to play hard defense and maybe they'll get some playing time in the next 3 years. I'm betting you wouldn't, if you had talent and an offer 15 minutes away from one of the guys that recruited you.