Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

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hawkwing
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Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby hawkwing » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:57 am

All off season I heard how BYU had a massive influx of talent and Saint Mary's was the same team as last year and since both squads were essentially equal BYU would be able to handle them fairly easily. There are posts about this in this forum, if you look for them.

But what happened? I didn't see two teams that looked close to being equal last night.

I'm not nearly as much a hoops guy as I am a football guy so for those who are why was that initial analysis wrong?



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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby snoscythe » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:08 am

They looked pretty even to me. The difference was that St. Mary's was able to put together a 13-0 run in the first half, and BYU never was able to put together enough defense to make a similar run of their own.

You can even see it in the game flow graph:

170105 BYU-StMarysGameFlow.png


That one 13-0 run made all the difference. Final margin = 13.



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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby hawkwing » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:02 pm

Okay, so they look pretty equal, just SMC is about a dozen points more equal.

That still doesn't answer the question, why was the pre-season analysis so wrong?



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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby BYULV » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:18 pm

SMC isn't better talent wise at this point, but much better scheme wise and playing together. Compare the players position by position and I think we have better personnel. Compare teams and SMC is obviously better. They have a great scheme on offense and defense and more importantly the team follows that plan to a T. They have been playing together for a long time, many even before coming to SMC. our guys played really well for long stretches last night, but didn't have persistent patience for 40 mins and it killed them. Our guys will get better, probably this year and will look a lot better next time these teams meet. SMC is probably at their peak right now, I'm not sure they're going to keep getting better this year. We definitely can improve 'this year, substantially



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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby BroncoBot » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:53 pm

hawkwing wrote:Okay, so they look pretty equal, just SMC is about a dozen points more equal.

That still doesn't answer the question, why was the pre-season analysis so wrong?

It's about what I expected. BYU has a ton of new faces who haven't played together. SMC, as was pointed out, has been the same (good) team for several years. SMC plays within a system that requires players to do their jobs. BYU plays in a free wheeling system where a lot of breakdowns can and do occur.

I feel like BYU is trying to get by on their talent alone. It just wont cut it when you play the SMCs, Zags or even the occasional UVUs.

BYU goes 0-4 vs smc and zags this year. 0-5 if they meet in the conference tournament.

Wasn't BYU predicted to go 3rd in WCC this year? I don't recall too many fans who saw BYU beating SMC this year (except the bluest of blue goggled fans).



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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby Qman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:29 pm

BYULV wrote:SMC isn't better talent wise at this point, but much better scheme wise and playing together. Compare the players position by position and I think we have better personnel. Compare teams and SMC is obviously better. They have a great scheme on offense and defense and more importantly the team follows that plan to a T. They have been playing together for a long time, many even before coming to SMC. our guys played really well for long stretches last night, but didn't have persistent patience for 40 mins and it killed them. Our guys will get better, probably this year and will look a lot better next time these teams meet. SMC is probably at their peak right now, I'm not sure they're going to keep getting better this year. We definitely can improve 'this year, substantially


But SMC had the edge in Strength and Experience at most positions. Because of that we had to shade and help on the ball defense. That opens gaps in the D and SMC is very, very good at exploiting that.

On the topic of the tread both- we are worse this year than last year and SMC is better.


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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby BoiseBYU » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:55 pm

SM's entire team came back from last year right? BYU's entire team is new. Even if you say our talent upgraded, perhaps we do not account for the importance of players playing together and having that experience.



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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby SpiffCoug » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:55 pm

snoscythe wrote:They looked pretty even to me. The difference was that St. Mary's was able to put together a 13-0 run in the first half, and BYU never was able to put together enough defense to make a similar run of their own.

You can even see it in the game flow graph:

170105 BYU-StMarysGameFlow.png

That one 13-0 run made all the difference. Final margin = 13.

Unfortunately, most of that 13-0 run came when Mika & LJ left the game and Bryant & Kaufusi came in.


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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby Mars » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:15 pm

SMC plays team ball. BYU plays hero ball. 21 assists to 9.


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Re: Did SMC get better or did BYU get worse?

Postby BroncoBot » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:21 pm

Mars wrote:SMC plays team ball. BYU plays hero ball. 21 assists to 9.


byu would do well to use smc's success as a template for how a bunch of jump shooter white guys should play basketball.




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