line in the sand...

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byufan4ever
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Re: line in the sand...

Post by byufan4ever » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:19 am

Here were my expectations at the beginning of the season:

NIT early exit = Major disappointment, Rose on the HOT seat
NIT semi-finals = disappointing season
Making the NCAA tournament = Expectation
Win conference title and/or conference tourney = Exceeding expectations
Sweet 16 = Fantastic season

There's no way to sugarcoat this: this was a MAJOR disappointment. I'm going to be expecting even more next season since we won't have the "inexperience" or "young" or "fresh off their missions" or "we had a high turnover (aka Coach Rose drove away all of the quality bench players)" excuses. Minimum expectation next season is a NCAA tournament win.
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Re: line in the sand...

Post by SpiffCoug » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:56 am

I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
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Re: line in the sand...

Post by Jarhead » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:11 pm

Jarhead wrote:
Jarhead wrote:
SpiffCoug wrote:I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
I think Rose's best days are behind him. Does he really have the desire/passion/energy to put in the effort to move the program forward? Does he have the willingness to make adjustments? I'm ready for a change.

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Re: line in the sand...

Post by snoscythe » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:25 pm

SpiffCoug wrote:I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
I don't think his seat is or should be that hot yet.

I think it should be uncomfortably warm, but I think on a cumulative basis Rose has earned another year to right the ship.

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Re: line in the sand...

Post by Jarhead » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:42 pm

snoscythe wrote:
SpiffCoug wrote:I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
I don't think his seat is or should be that hot yet.

I think it should be uncomfortably warm, but I think on a cumulative basis Rose has earned another year to right the ship.
Philosophically I agree with you. Unfortunately I think that means another year of suffering.

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Re: line in the sand...

Post by BroncoBot » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:19 am

Jarhead wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
SpiffCoug wrote:I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
I don't think his seat is or should be that hot yet.

I think it should be uncomfortably warm, but I think on a cumulative basis Rose has earned another year to right the ship.
Philosophically I agree with you. Unfortunately I think that means another year of suffering.
I'd objectively counter that Rose's entire body of work disagrees. He's a great coach. I'm on board with him staying as long as he wants and has the desire.

It was a young team, little experience playing at this level together, and the injury bug bit hard and often. You could easily say that this BYU team exceeded expectations. remember, BYU was positioned to be 3rd in conference. They met expectations this year.

I think the biggest problem this year was the high sky expectations that the LP3 and their lofty recruiting numbers were magically going to turn BYU into a final four type team. Give it 2 years and MAYBE that will be the case. I didn't like the results of some of the games, but overall, I thought BYU had a decent season holding their ground. Definitely not as bad as it could have been.

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Re: line in the sand...

Post by ABYUFAN » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:44 am

BroncoBot wrote:
Jarhead wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
SpiffCoug wrote:I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
I don't think his seat is or should be that hot yet.

I think it should be uncomfortably warm, but I think on a cumulative basis Rose has earned another year to right the ship.
Philosophically I agree with you. Unfortunately I think that means another year of suffering.
I'd objectively counter that Rose's entire body of work disagrees. He's a great coach. I'm on board with him staying as long as he wants and has the desire.

It was a young team, little experience playing at this level together, and the injury bug bit hard and often. You could easily say that this BYU team exceeded expectations. remember, BYU was positioned to be 3rd in conference. They met expectations this year.

I think the biggest problem this year was the high sky expectations that the LP3 and their lofty recruiting numbers were magically going to turn BYU into a final four type team. Give it 2 years and MAYBE that will be the case. I didn't like the results of some of the games, but overall, I thought BYU had a decent season holding their ground. Definitely not as bad as it could have been.
FWIW I agree with you Dave Rose is on no hotter of a seat this year than Randy Bennett should have been on last year. Similar tenure, similar results, in the same conference. Some will say BYU is not St. Mary's - and they're right. St. Mary's is in a better location recruit wise, has no similar honor code issues, so they have different challenges than BYU so they are not exactly equals, but hey they're not a bad comparison. Who do we replace Rose with? Who do we bring in that would've Landed Frank Jackson or Jabari Parker? Who could've had a crystal ball and kept bench player from leaving because those bench players saw people being recruited in front of them?

Who do we bring in that would have no problem losing Mr. Triple Double Kyle Collinsworth to graduation, Chase Fischer to Graduation, Zach Seljes to a mission, Jordan Chatman to the crazy people at the Law school, Kyle Davis to injury and Jakob Hartsock to not wanting to play basketball anymore. If anything, this was a spectacular year based on what we lost, and who was injured this year. People seem to take the loss to UVU as a sign that Rose cannot coach, because we had no business not winning and our beating Gonzaga as a sign that Rose cannot coach because we should always be able to beat the number one team in the nation.

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Re: line in the sand...

Post by BroncoBot » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:06 pm

ABYUFAN wrote:
BroncoBot wrote:
Jarhead wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
SpiffCoug wrote:I would be perfectly fine with Coach Rose deciding to serve a mission or to retire for health reasons. I see no reason that Holmoe shouldn't be looking long and hard at whether Rose should be back next year.
I don't think his seat is or should be that hot yet.

I think it should be uncomfortably warm, but I think on a cumulative basis Rose has earned another year to right the ship.
Philosophically I agree with you. Unfortunately I think that means another year of suffering.
I'd objectively counter that Rose's entire body of work disagrees. He's a great coach. I'm on board with him staying as long as he wants and has the desire.

It was a young team, little experience playing at this level together, and the injury bug bit hard and often. You could easily say that this BYU team exceeded expectations. remember, BYU was positioned to be 3rd in conference. They met expectations this year.

I think the biggest problem this year was the high sky expectations that the LP3 and their lofty recruiting numbers were magically going to turn BYU into a final four type team. Give it 2 years and MAYBE that will be the case. I didn't like the results of some of the games, but overall, I thought BYU had a decent season holding their ground. Definitely not as bad as it could have been.
FWIW I agree with you Dave Rose is on no hotter of a seat this year than Randy Bennett should have been on last year. Similar tenure, similar results, in the same conference. Some will say BYU is not St. Mary's - and they're right. St. Mary's is in a better location recruit wise, has no similar honor code issues, so they have different challenges than BYU so they are not exactly equals, but hey they're not a bad comparison. Who do we replace Rose with? Who do we bring in that would've Landed Frank Jackson or Jabari Parker? Who could've had a crystal ball and kept bench player from leaving because those bench players saw people being recruited in front of them?

Who do we bring in that would have no problem losing Mr. Triple Double Kyle Collinsworth to graduation, Chase Fischer to Graduation, Zach Seljes to a mission, Jordan Chatman to the crazy people at the Law school, Kyle Davis to injury and Jakob Hartsock to not wanting to play basketball anymore. If anything, this was a spectacular year based on what we lost, and who was injured this year. People seem to take the loss to UVU as a sign that Rose cannot coach, because we had no business not winning and our beating Gonzaga as a sign that Rose cannot coach because we should always be able to beat the number one team in the nation.
Well said.

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Re: line in the sand...

Post by Mars » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:50 pm

My problem was pairing Rose's best-ever recruiting with his worst season in about 10 years. On top of that was continuing to lose players, guys like Emery showing little improvement over 2 years (let alone in-season), the lack of defense (at the perimeter especially), poor shot selection completely unopposed by coaching, and the lack of good passing in set offensive schemes. Then add in losses like the home loss to UVU, and how that game was lost, the inability to win at lowly Santa Clara, the parade of losses to sub-200 rpi teams, and losing 3 in a row to St. Mary's with the final loss by 31 points, and the home-court NIT blowout L was an ugly cherry on an unappetizing sundae.
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Re: line in the sand...

Post by byufan4ever » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:51 pm

Unless you work for the government in what type of job or industry are you allowed to stay as long as you want? Where's the incentive to consistently produce results? Recent results matter and post season results matter more than hundreds of regular season wins against 100+ RPI teams. That's great that Rose has done great things in the past. But in no way shape or form does that guarantee him to stay as long as HE wants.

Think of this in terms of a business. Rose's stock is falling.
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