6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

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Gunk
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6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by Gunk » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:47 am

Due to various reasons, tonight was the first game of the season I was able to see this team play. It's one game against less than stellar competition, but I'd say Cannon is better than these recent BYU guards:

L.J. Rose - People were high on LJ last year, but it soon became obvious LJ had no offensive game whatsoever. Cannon can score and isn't afraid too. IMO, Cannon is just as quick and I didn't see any glaring deficiencies on defense.

Jordan Chatman - this will irk some folks because Chatman never really got a chance, but Cannon is an upgrade over what Chatman did for us. Cannon is currently averaging 12.5 points per game, 2.5 rebounds, 4 assists, and .5 steals on 25 min of play. Chatman averaged 2.7 points per game, 1 rebound, .8 assists, and .1 steals on 10 min of play. Even if you doubled Chatman's playing time, Cannon still out performs Chatman. Maybe Rose was onto something...

Skylar Halford - Cannon is quicker, bigger, and a better defender. Halford as a senior averaged 8.8 points per game, 1.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists, and 0.7 steals on 18 min of playing time. Still a lot of games left against better opponents, but so far Cannon is a better baller than Halford.

Craig Cusick - how this guy ended up on a Division 1 school like BYU is beyond me. Cusick averaged 19 min a game as a Senior and hardly did a thing with the ball, had little to know athletic ability, and his only claim to fame was being a "steady hand" compared to Carlino. Cannon could run circles around Cusick.

Cory Calvert - another player that was "wronged" by Rose that supposedly never got the playing time he deserved. Maybe Calvert actually wasn't that good. Before transferring, Calvert was averaging 1.3 points per game, 1.3 rebounds, 0.3 assists, and 0 steals on 6.5 min per game. Even if you quadrupled the amount of playing time Calvert got, at that clip Cannon still outperforms Calvert. Oh, and just in case you're thinking Calvert is off tearing it up at his new team after leaving BYU, he isn't. He's averaging a whopping 7.4 min/game at UVU and has made a total of 3 baskets on the season. We should be glad Calvert was "chased" out.

Nick Martineau - who? Remember, he played backup PG to Jimmer. He made the BYU team, on scholarship and no one criticized his presence. Cannon did more against Illinois State tonight than Martineau did his entire career at BYU.

Has Rose made mistakes. Sure. Players often don't pan out how we think or hope. Occasionally, a player performs better than expected. So why not be glad Rose got the better end of the deal here? Weber St. lost a good player.
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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by byufan4ever » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:15 am

I like what I see from Cannon so far but I think we need to give him an entire season before declaring him Superman. I also don't see the need to trash former players, most of whom were fringe players anyways. Was anyone saying that Cannon was not better than these guys? I don't mean to poop on your parade but I just don't see the point of this post...
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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by hawkwing » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:45 am

Gunk, can you compare what Cannon is doing compared to what Chatman is doing this season?

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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by scott715 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm

Good question Hawk.

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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by BroncoBot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:04 pm

Friendly reminder that it is CHATMAN,
even if it CHAPS you he is gone.

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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by Gunk » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:09 pm

At Boston College, Chatman is averaging 10.6 pts/game, 2.3 rebounds, 0.8 assists, and 0.5 steals on 32 min of play. Chatman is shooting 39% from the floor, 30% from behind the arch, and 96% from the line.

Cannon is shooting 62% from the field, 50% from behind the arch, and 100% from the line. Cannon's points per game dropped to 9.7 after last night. He's now at 3.3 assists, 2.7 rebounds, and 1 steal per game. Cannon is getting 25 min a game.

Boston College plays in the ACC, so one could argue Chatman is playing against stiffer competition, but so far Boston Collage hasn't played or beaten any ranked teams (they play Duke Saturday).

The shooting percentages, IMO, are telling. On the season, Chatman is averaging 8 shots a game, making on average 3. He's 25-64 on the season. Decent, not stellar.

Now, Cannon has only attempted 13 shots on the season. He's primarily played at the 1 spot, so fewer shots are to be expected when comparing to a shooting guard. Of the 13, Cannon has made 8. So, far fewer shots taken by Cannon, but he's accurate and one could argue better at selecting his shots. Cannon isn't forcing anything, which BYU has had plenty of the last few years.

Chatman is having a decent season at Boston. Is he tearing it up? Nope. At BYU Chatman shot 38% from the field, 34% from the arch (shooting guards should be over 40% from 3P range), and 70% from the line. At Boston, Chatman is shooting about as well as he did at BYU. He's just getting more minutes. So, I think we kind of know what would have happened if he got more min at BYU.
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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by Gunk » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:18 pm

byufan4ever wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:15 am
I like what I see from Cannon so far but I think we need to give him an entire season before declaring him Superman. I also don't see the need to trash former players, most of whom were fringe players anyways. Was anyone saying that Cannon was not better than these guys? I don't mean to poop on your parade but I just don't see the point of this post...
Agree, an entire season should be given him before assessing his overall performance. So far he's a solid player. I wouldn't say he's superman. There's a reason he's coming off the bench. But, he's been a pleasant surprise, hence the chatter.

My point isn't to trash former players. My point is to refute the idea that we got a garbage player and counter the bemoans that all BYU can get are castaways from lesser schools.

We got a good player. We have a legit backcourt.
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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by Mars » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 pm

What's the height difference between Cannon and Chatman?
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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by Gunk » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:35 pm

Mars wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 pm
What's the height difference between Cannon and Chatman?
Cannon is 6'. Chapman is 6' 5".

So yeah, the shorter player is rebounding just as well as the guy 5" taller. On a per minute basis, Cannon is the better rebounder.

Chapman's length is a definite asset on defensive.
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Re: 6 BYU Guards Cannon Out-performs

Post by snoscythe » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:11 pm

This is my biggest problem with the McKay Cannon phenomenon. I have nothing against the kid--and I hope he continues to flourish for us, but fans are coming to outrageous conclusions based on an extremely tiny sample size. This kid came into two games where the opponents had little (USU) to no (UVU) film to prepare for him, and he performed admirably, but it's fools gold to believe that it will continue.
Gunk wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:47 am
Cannon is currently averaging 12.5 points per game, 2.5 rebounds, 4 assists, and .5 steals on 25 min of play. (and 1 TO)
Those are his numbers for just the two games. After just one additional game against Illinois State, his numbers are already regressing toward his previous mean at Weber State. Now he's averaging 9.7 ppg, 2.7 reb, 3.3 assists, 1 steal, and 1.3 TOs a game.

We'll see how his numbers (and the analysis and conclusions they've spawned) hold up over the course of the season as BYU's games get tougher and opponents have more film on the kid in BYU's system than UVU and USU had, but his success didn't translate to Illinois State (4pts, 2ast in 25 minutes).

In truth, I think the only BYU guards you can say with any confidence Cannon is better than are the following:
Evan Troy
Kajon Brown
Rylan Bergersen
and maybe Jashire Hardnett

These are the guys Rose recruited and has on the team who Cannon is evidently better than because he is taking minutes away from them at this point. And that's a commentary on the quality of guards we've been landing.

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