Offensive Coaching staff

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by frdbtr » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:12 am

I'm giving them a year. If we see good results, I give them another. If we have another losing season, fire them all.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by canadiancoug24 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:22 pm

It will be hard to do any worse than last year. My hope is that the new staff chooses a solid new QB (maybe Hall or Wilstead?) and WR play can improve. If we have more consistent play from specifically our QB, RB's and WR's then we should see substantial improvement IMO.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by CrimsonCoug » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:56 pm

BroncoBot wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:17 am
So BYU got rid of Detmer (assuming he would have been qb coach) for a-rod? I'd have given Detmer a year with the qbs. If be did awesome keep him. If he was terrible call a-rod.
I'm with you on this. In no way is ARod a superior QB coach to Detmer. Ty had his faults as a coordinator, but those were mostly in game management and being a nice guy who the team loved but didnt believe he'd hold them personally accountable. But as a pure passing professor I believe he'd be unparalleled.

Jeff Grimes is now literally the only interesting thing about this staff, and I have the strong sense that Kalani was listening to Jake Kuresa on that one and that Grimes had very limited flexibility in bringing his own people in. (Though in fairness part of that may be due to the honor code / lifestyle requirements of the institution.) But regardless, I have very little faith that this offensive staff can do much better than .500. Id be shocked yo see them get more than 7 wins, and won't be surprised if theyvwind up with 4 or 5 again.

I'm glad the basketball team is playing relatively well, because right now BYU football literally makes me nauseous.
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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by Mars » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:59 pm

Detmer would be a good admin/boosters guy. But damn he sucked as a coach.
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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by pikoi » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:13 am

CrimsonCoug wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:56 pm
BroncoBot wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:17 am
So BYU got rid of Detmer (assuming he would have been qb coach) for a-rod? I'd have given Detmer a year with the qbs. If be did awesome keep him. If he was terrible call a-rod.
I'm with you on this. In no way is ARod a superior QB coach to Detmer. Ty had his faults as a coordinator, but those were mostly in game management and being a nice guy who the team loved but didnt believe he'd hold them personally accountable. But as a pure passing professor I believe he'd be unparalleled.

Jeff Grimes is now literally the only interesting thing about this staff, and I have the strong sense that Kalani was listening to Jake Kuresa on that one and that Grimes had very limited flexibility in bringing his own people in. (Though in fairness part of that may be due to the honor code / lifestyle requirements of the institution.) But regardless, I have very little faith that this offensive staff can do much better than .500. Id be shocked yo see them get more than 7 wins, and won't be surprised if theyvwind up with 4 or 5 again.

I'm glad the basketball team is playing relatively well, because right now BYU football literally makes me nauseous.
I have no information about A-rod as a coach. I recently had a conversation with a member of the offensive coaching staff that made it clear that Detmer would be a fantastic NFL coach but really struggled to communicate and teach our QBs. Knowledge is great. Teaching it effectively can be a whole different beast. Especially teaching it to people who are nowhere near your level of understanding.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by snoscythe » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:10 am

CrimsonCoug wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:56 pm
In no way is ARod a superior QB coach to Detmer.
Based on what, exactly?

Taysom looked awesome as a passer against Nebraska under Jason Beck. Then he looked like hot garbage as a passer under Detmer for a year. Then he gets to the NFL under new coaches and looks awesome again in the preseason.

Tanner looked good his frosh season under Beck, but also looked like hot garbage passing under Detmer. So did most of the other QBs we put on the field. Critchlow looked decent, but probably had the least amount of coaching from Detmer, so that one can cut either way.

Roderick's QBs have had PER averages of 120.8, 127.3, and 130.9 in his thee seasons as QB coach.

Detmer's had had PER averages of 106.6 and 118.1, with arguably better QB talent to work with.

I get that Ty gets a lot of mileage out of his NFL stories, but his results were nowhere near good as a QB coach.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by ABYUFAN » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am

snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:10 am
CrimsonCoug wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:56 pm
In no way is ARod a superior QB coach to Detmer.
Based on what, exactly?

Taysom looked awesome as a passer against Nebraska under Jason Beck. Then he looked like hot garbage as a passer under Detmer for a year. Then he gets to the NFL under new coaches and looks awesome again in the preseason.

Tanner looked good his frosh season under Beck, but also looked like hot garbage passing under Detmer. So did most of the other QBs we put on the field. Critchlow looked decent, but probably had the least amount of coaching from Detmer, so that one can cut either way.

Roderick's QBs have had PER averages of 120.8, 127.3, and 130.9 in his thee seasons as QB coach.

Detmer's had had PER averages of 106.6 and 118.1, with arguably better QB talent to work with.

I get that Ty gets a lot of mileage out of his NFL stories, but his results were nowhere near good as a QB coach.
FWIW I'm with Crimson Coug on this one. You're using Detmer's numbers as an OC to compare with Roderick. Detmer was never just a QB coach - I'd have been more excited to have seen him given a go as that and focus on just the QB than I am to see someone who has shown what his word is worth and has been proven to be worthy of firing

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by SpiffCoug » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:26 am

frdbtr wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:12 am
I'm giving them a year. If we see good results, I give them another. If we have another losing season, fire them all.
And by fire them all, you mean the entire coaching staff, correct? Offense. Defense. Head Coach. Strength & Conditioning. Football Operations.

I want a complete overhaul of the football program if we fail to make a bowl game in 2018.
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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by snoscythe » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am

ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am
You're using Detmer's numbers as an OC to compare with Roderick. Detmer was never just a QB coach - I'd have been more excited to have seen him given a go as that and focus on just the QB than I am to see someone who has shown what his word is worth and has been proven to be worthy of firing
Roderick was a QB coach only in 2014. The other two seasons he was Co-Offensive Coordinator in addition to QB coach, so what does that mean to your analysis?

And FWIW, Ty also showed he was worthy of firing.....so they're even on that score, aren't they?

Again-- based on what do you think Detmer is better at coaching college QBs that Roderick?

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by ABYUFAN » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:04 pm

snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am
ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am
You're using Detmer's numbers as an OC to compare with Roderick. Detmer was never just a QB coach - I'd have been more excited to have seen him given a go as that and focus on just the QB than I am to see someone who has shown what his word is worth and has been proven to be worthy of firing
Roderick was a QB coach only in 2014. The other two seasons he was Co-Offensive Coordinator in addition to QB coach, so what does that mean to your analysis?

And FWIW, Ty also showed he was worthy of firing.....so they're even on that score, aren't they?

Again-- based on what do you think Detmer is better at coaching college QBs that Roderick?
Roderick had been coaching at the college level for seven years. he's now coached for more than ten. We've seen his ceiling. It ain't much. Detmer has been doing it two. And by all accounts doing a lousy job for two. Taking away the lions' share of his responsibility may (and I agree that it is a big "may") have resulted in him doing an effective job - we will never know.

We don't have to agree on the Roderick v. Detmer issue. I'm fine with that. I hope that you can see that it is not unreasonable to be underwhelmed that BYU is replacing it's incompetent OC / QB coach with a QB coach who was fired from his last job for being an incompetent OC/QB coach.

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