Offensive Coaching staff

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frdbtr
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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by frdbtr » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:24 pm

SpiffCoug wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:26 am
frdbtr wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:12 am
I'm giving them a year. If we see good results, I give them another. If we have another losing season, fire them all.
And by fire them all, you mean the entire coaching staff, correct? Offense. Defense. Head Coach. Strength & Conditioning. Football Operations.

I want a complete overhaul of the football program if we fail to make a bowl game in 2018.
And an evaluation, at least, of the AD.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by frdbtr » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:27 pm

We are going to see pretty quick aren't we. Spring ball is in a couple of months, and then next fall we will see if this all works. IMO, I would have rather seen Roderick with the receivers where he had some good success with the utes but I am not the one fighting for my job as HC of BYU football like Sitake is and that is where he decided to put Roderick. Like I said above, I give them this year and if they fail, I want the entire staff gone and maybe the AD.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by ABYUFAN » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:16 pm

frdbtr wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:24 pm
SpiffCoug wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:26 am
frdbtr wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:12 am
I'm giving them a year. If we see good results, I give them another. If we have another losing season, fire them all.
And by fire them all, you mean the entire coaching staff, correct? Offense. Defense. Head Coach. Strength & Conditioning. Football Operations.

I want a complete overhaul of the football program if we fail to make a bowl game in 2018.
And an evaluation, at least, of the AD.
My magic number is 8 for next year. Seven wins or fewer and it will be time for the Sitake era at BYU to end. I'm still not sold on the anti-Holmoe bandwagon - every move he has done has been justifiable. I would not have brought in Sitake - and I've been clear on that from the beginning. But his 9 win first season seems enough evidence to have justified the initial hire. The steep drop off caused him to fire what me be BYU's favorite football player ever. He brought back one of (if not THE) most successful position coach at BYU over the past two decades to try to right the offensive ship. Hopefully it works out. If not, at least it can be said that the move made sense. If SItake fails it will be of his own doing. (And I hope that it doesn't happen) .500 over 3 years is unacceptable - so 8 wins will be needed in my mind to allow for another go round for Sitake and Company

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by snoscythe » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:35 pm

ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:04 pm
snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am
ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am
You're using Detmer's numbers as an OC to compare with Roderick. Detmer was never just a QB coach - I'd have been more excited to have seen him given a go as that and focus on just the QB than I am to see someone who has shown what his word is worth and has been proven to be worthy of firing
Roderick was a QB coach only in 2014. The other two seasons he was Co-Offensive Coordinator in addition to QB coach, so what does that mean to your analysis?

And FWIW, Ty also showed he was worthy of firing.....so they're even on that score, aren't they?

Again-- based on what do you think Detmer is better at coaching college QBs that Roderick?
Roderick had been coaching at the college level for seven years. he's now coached for more than ten. We've seen his ceiling. It ain't much.
He's put 5 WRs into the NFL as a WR coach and one quarterback (Travis Wilson) as a QB coach.

BYU is replacing it's incompetent OC / QB coach with a QB coach who was fired from his last job for being an incompetent OC/QB coach.
Roderick was fired for his performance as Co-OC, not QB coach -- his QBs performed better in the year before he was fired than they did the year he got promoted from QB coach to Co-OC.

If we are going to use Kyle Whittingham's decision to fire offensive coordinators as an indication of how good someone is, we need to deem a long list of respected offensive coordinators as failures:

Andy Ludwig -- currently offensive coordinator at Vanderbilt
Dave Schramm/Aaron Roderick -- Schramm landed at Fresno State
Norm Chow -- did pretty good at some other schools, if memory serves....
Brian Johnson -- was OC at Houston last season, leaving for Florida as QB coach and passing coordinator
Dennis Erickson -- too many qualifications to list
Dave Christensen -- did dang well at Toledo, Mizzou, and Wyoming until he got to Utah.
Aaron Roderick/Jim Harding -- Harding was promoted to Assistant Head Coach at Utah after he and Roderick "failed".

You see, the open secret is that the problem with Utah's offense is not the offensive coaching staff, it's Kyle Whittingham. He says he wants wide open, vertical passing, high-octane offenses, so he goes out and hires coaches who can do that. But he cannot stomach turnovers or three-and-outs, so when an offense stalls (as most new offenses do), Whittingham sees a threat to his defense winning games, so he chokes down on the offensive staff and tells them no more risks. So unless you can deliver a wide open, vertical passing, high-octane offense without taking risks or turning the ball over, you're the scapegoat at the end of another 8-5, 9-4 season in the PAC-12.

You guys can keep on calling the guy a "failure" for getting fired from Utah, but that's a joke. Everybody since Ludwig has been fired as the OC from Utah, and it's a Whittingham control-thing, not a performance thing. There have been enough proven commodities through that program to show that there is more to it that just how good of an OC you are. If anything, I worry that Kalani has picked up some of that same stifling, pass-the-buck onto the OC mentality from Whittingham after watching him publicly throw the offensive players and coaches under the bus last season.

The season he was fired, Roderick's offense scored 29.8 ppg and averaged 430 ypg.

But for some reason people are complaining that he's replacing (as Passing Coodinator and QB Coach) a guy who only gave us 17.1 ppg and 325 ypg last season because Roderick was fired for performing far better than the guy he is replacing.

Forget the Heisman guys -- it's a statue honoring achievements that are now 27 years old. When it comes to coaching, whether as a coordinator or a QB coach, every metric shows that Roderick is an upgrade over Detmer--if Detmer would have coached BYU's offense to the same level of performance that got Roderick fired at the U, Ty would still have a job at BYU.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by a1247 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:10 pm

snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:35 pm
ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:04 pm
snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am
ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am
You're using Detmer's numbers as an OC to compare with Roderick. Detmer was never just a QB coach - I'd have been more excited to have seen him given a go as that and focus on just the QB than I am to see someone who has shown what his word is worth and has been proven to be worthy of firing
Roderick was a QB coach only in 2014. The other two seasons he was Co-Offensive Coordinator in addition to QB coach, so what does that mean to your analysis?

And FWIW, Ty also showed he was worthy of firing.....so they're even on that score, aren't they?

Again-- based on what do you think Detmer is better at coaching college QBs that Roderick?
Roderick had been coaching at the college level for seven years. he's now coached for more than ten. We've seen his ceiling. It ain't much.
He's put 5 WRs into the NFL as a WR coach and one quarterback (Travis Wilson) as a QB coach.

BYU is replacing it's incompetent OC / QB coach with a QB coach who was fired from his last job for being an incompetent OC/QB coach.
Roderick was fired for his performance as Co-OC, not QB coach -- his QBs performed better in the year before he was fired than they did the year he got promoted from QB coach to Co-OC.

If we are going to use Kyle Whittingham's decision to fire offensive coordinators as an indication of how good someone is, we need to deem a long list of respected offensive coordinators as failures:

Andy Ludwig -- currently offensive coordinator at Vanderbilt
Dave Schramm/Aaron Roderick -- Schramm landed at Fresno State
Norm Chow -- did pretty good at some other schools, if memory serves....
Brian Johnson -- was OC at Houston last season, leaving for Florida as QB coach and passing coordinator
Dennis Erickson -- too many qualifications to list
Dave Christensen -- did dang well at Toledo, Mizzou, and Wyoming until he got to Utah.
Aaron Roderick/Jim Harding -- Harding was promoted to Assistant Head Coach at Utah after he and Roderick "failed".

You see, the open secret is that the problem with Utah's offense is not the offensive coaching staff, it's Kyle Whittingham. He says he wants wide open, vertical passing, high-octane offenses, so he goes out and hires coaches who can do that. But he cannot stomach turnovers or three-and-outs, so when an offense stalls (as most new offenses do), Whittingham sees a threat to his defense winning games, so he chokes down on the offensive staff and tells them no more risks. So unless you can deliver a wide open, vertical passing, high-octane offense without taking risks or turning the ball over, you're the scapegoat at the end of another 8-5, 9-4 season in the PAC-12.

You guys can keep on calling the guy a "failure" for getting fired from Utah, but that's a joke. Everybody since Ludwig has been fired as the OC from Utah, and it's a Whittingham control-thing, not a performance thing. There have been enough proven commodities through that program to show that there is more to it that just how good of an OC you are. If anything, I worry that Kalani has picked up some of that same stifling, pass-the-buck onto the OC mentality from Whittingham after watching him publicly throw the offensive players and coaches under the bus last season.

The season he was fired, Roderick's offense scored 29.8 ppg and averaged 430 ypg.

But for some reason people are complaining that he's replacing (as Passing Coodinator and QB Coach) a guy who only gave us 17.1 ppg and 325 ypg last season because Roderick was fired for performing far better than the guy he is replacing.

Forget the Heisman guys -- it's a statue honoring achievements that are now 27 years old. When it comes to coaching, whether as a coordinator or a QB coach, every metric shows that Roderick is an upgrade over Detmer--if Detmer would have coached BYU's offense to the same level of performance that got Roderick fired at the U, Ty would still have a job at BYU.
This is one of the best most well thought out post I've read in a long time. I couldn't understand why people were so against Roderick. He has proven experience that people dismiss solely because of where he coached. I am 100% convinced there is some on here that no matter who BYU hires they won't be satisfied.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by Mars » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:31 pm

People don't like Roderick because he agreed to coach for BYU then bailed 24 hours later to accept a salary increase at Utah. His qualifications are solid (though better for WRs than QBs). Also, the "buddy hire" thing with Kalani hasn't worked out well so far.
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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by a1247 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:14 pm

Mars wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:31 pm
People don't like Roderick because he agreed to coach for BYU then bailed 24 hours later to accept a salary increase at Utah. His qualifications are solid (though better for WRs than QBs). Also, the "buddy hire" thing with Kalani hasn't worked out well so far.
Personally I don't care what he did, I only care about the here and now.

As for the "buddy hire" this is BYU, almost all hires are "buddy hires". That's what happens when you hand cuff yourself like BYU does.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by Ddawg » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:54 pm

a1247 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:10 pm
Roderick ..... He has proven experience that people dismiss solely because of where he coached. I am 100% convinced there is some on here that no matter who BYU hires they won't be satisfied.
Bingo! Got that right.

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Re: Offensive Coaching staff

Post by canadiancoug24 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 pm

All I have to say about this post is, YES!!! I could not have said it any better.
snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:35 pm
ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:04 pm
snoscythe wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am
ABYUFAN wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am
You're using Detmer's numbers as an OC to compare with Roderick. Detmer was never just a QB coach - I'd have been more excited to have seen him given a go as that and focus on just the QB than I am to see someone who has shown what his word is worth and has been proven to be worthy of firing
Roderick was a QB coach only in 2014. The other two seasons he was Co-Offensive Coordinator in addition to QB coach, so what does that mean to your analysis?

And FWIW, Ty also showed he was worthy of firing.....so they're even on that score, aren't they?

Again-- based on what do you think Detmer is better at coaching college QBs that Roderick?
Roderick had been coaching at the college level for seven years. he's now coached for more than ten. We've seen his ceiling. It ain't much.
He's put 5 WRs into the NFL as a WR coach and one quarterback (Travis Wilson) as a QB coach.

BYU is replacing it's incompetent OC / QB coach with a QB coach who was fired from his last job for being an incompetent OC/QB coach.
Roderick was fired for his performance as Co-OC, not QB coach -- his QBs performed better in the year before he was fired than they did the year he got promoted from QB coach to Co-OC.

If we are going to use Kyle Whittingham's decision to fire offensive coordinators as an indication of how good someone is, we need to deem a long list of respected offensive coordinators as failures:

Andy Ludwig -- currently offensive coordinator at Vanderbilt
Dave Schramm/Aaron Roderick -- Schramm landed at Fresno State
Norm Chow -- did pretty good at some other schools, if memory serves....
Brian Johnson -- was OC at Houston last season, leaving for Florida as QB coach and passing coordinator
Dennis Erickson -- too many qualifications to list
Dave Christensen -- did dang well at Toledo, Mizzou, and Wyoming until he got to Utah.
Aaron Roderick/Jim Harding -- Harding was promoted to Assistant Head Coach at Utah after he and Roderick "failed".

You see, the open secret is that the problem with Utah's offense is not the offensive coaching staff, it's Kyle Whittingham. He says he wants wide open, vertical passing, high-octane offenses, so he goes out and hires coaches who can do that. But he cannot stomach turnovers or three-and-outs, so when an offense stalls (as most new offenses do), Whittingham sees a threat to his defense winning games, so he chokes down on the offensive staff and tells them no more risks. So unless you can deliver a wide open, vertical passing, high-octane offense without taking risks or turning the ball over, you're the scapegoat at the end of another 8-5, 9-4 season in the PAC-12.

You guys can keep on calling the guy a "failure" for getting fired from Utah, but that's a joke. Everybody since Ludwig has been fired as the OC from Utah, and it's a Whittingham control-thing, not a performance thing. There have been enough proven commodities through that program to show that there is more to it that just how good of an OC you are. If anything, I worry that Kalani has picked up some of that same stifling, pass-the-buck onto the OC mentality from Whittingham after watching him publicly throw the offensive players and coaches under the bus last season.

The season he was fired, Roderick's offense scored 29.8 ppg and averaged 430 ypg.

But for some reason people are complaining that he's replacing (as Passing Coodinator and QB Coach) a guy who only gave us 17.1 ppg and 325 ypg last season because Roderick was fired for performing far better than the guy he is replacing.

Forget the Heisman guys -- it's a statue honoring achievements that are now 27 years old. When it comes to coaching, whether as a coordinator or a QB coach, every metric shows that Roderick is an upgrade over Detmer--if Detmer would have coached BYU's offense to the same level of performance that got Roderick fired at the U, Ty would still have a job at BYU.

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