Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

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Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by hawkwing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:38 am



I've heard rumors the last few weeks that there have been some serious violations going on among the team, but I haven't passed them along because I've heard no corroboration until now.

There may be a lot worse coming.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by lawngnome » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:43 am

I mean, I love his playing style, but why was he allowed to play?! Isn’t that a bigger HC violation than what FB had with the building manager?? Did the coaches/HC Office not know?? Hopefully they didn’t choose to let him play in spite of he citation. That’s a bad look for BYU.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by snoscythe » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:48 am

In coaching, there is a bit of a dichotomy between an "owner's coach" and a "players' coach".

The owner's coach is a disciplinarian that "runs a tight ship" and has firm team rules, practice structure, game book, discipline etc.

The players' coaches are the fun guys who the players relate to and want to be around in their spare time. They're the fun guys with loose structure in practices, more informal discipline, and fun as a priority.

A lot of times you see teams ride an owner's coach until the team gets tired of it and starts to rebel and act out. Then management will bring in a players' coach to "change the culture" and make it fun again. That lasts until it gets too fun, the team starts making bad headlines outside of the sport, then starts losing and infighting, and the coach becomes more assertive to try to right the sinking ship, and he loses the trust of his players "cuz he's changed, man". Then management replaces him with an "owner's coach" to change the culture again, and the cycle goes on.

BYU is not the place for a players' coach like Crowton or Kalani. Simply because of the nature of 18-24 year old kids, players' coaches will always be short-lived at BYU.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by frdbtr » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:53 am

snoscythe wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:48 am
In coaching, there is a bit of a dichotomy between an "owner's coach" and a "players' coach".

The owner's coach is a disciplinarian that "runs a tight ship" and has firm team rules, practice structure, game book, discipline etc.

The players' coaches are the fun guys who the players relate to and want to be around in their spare time. They're the fun guys with loose structure in practices, more informal discipline, and fun as a priority.

A lot of times you see teams ride an owner's coach until the team gets tired of it and starts to rebel and act out. Then management will bring in a players' coach to "change the culture" and make it fun again. That lasts until it gets too fun, the team starts making bad headlines outside of the sport, then starts losing and infighting, and the coach becomes more assertive to try to right the sinking ship, and he loses the trust of his players "cuz he's changed, man". Then management replaces him with an "owner's coach" to change the culture again, and the cycle goes on.

BYU is not the place for a players' coach like Crowton or Kalani. Simply because of the nature of 18-24 year old kids, players' coaches will always be short-lived at BYU.
I agree. Lavell was a players coach but had disciplinarian coordinators and position coaches who ran the tight ship while he was the father figure. Plus, like a good father, I have a feeling that Lavell was tough on guys when he needed to be. This coaching staff has no one who is hard nosed.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by hawkwing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:57 am

And yes, I can confirm that the coaching staff knew about the issue and know about other issues taking place that have yet to come to light. Sometimes when you don't see a guy play for a half, it's his punishment for being caught, but as long as it doesn't make the news, it won't really be more than that.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by Cougs_Rule » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:01 am

Sno's spot on. Same dynamic exits with Mission presidents and most other leadership changes.
Sometimes there is also innocent until proven guilty before action is taken? IDK the reason hes been playing. Maybe it was medical mj. Ha.
But, again, is the ship merely just taking on water? Or sinking? Or worse? two public legal issues showing up in one week--indicative of a trend...very possibly triggering old rape-gate fears by the BoT (with rationale well described by Sno) and Captain Kalani may not get the benefit of the doubt. This is no longer just a TH problem. Guess who TH got a call from or TH made a call to yesterday? Yep, KW. This is now a TH/KW problem and that does not bode well for Kalani. Makes me sad. But im pretty sure we are way past whether or not this is Ty's problem. Or Mahe's. Or Cahoon's.
Oh, then there is all this drama and distraction for coaches and players during and even more critical game prep day. Thats all Kalani needs is a loss to an even suckier team than ECU. A loss to SJSU will be like dropping the anchor thru the bottom of the ship rather than over the side.
Last edited by Cougs_Rule on Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by lawngnome » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:02 am

hawkwing wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:57 am
And yes, I can confirm that the coaching staff knew about the issue and know about other issues taking place that have yet to come to light. Sometimes when you don't see a guy play for a half, it's his punishment for being caught, but as long as it doesn't make the news, it won't really be more than that.
That’s really disappointing to me on an issue like this. I mean that is the response of other schools without the honor code. So do we really hold our players to a higher standard? Or do we just not have sex?

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by Cougs_Rule » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:06 am

lawngnome wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:02 am
hawkwing wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:57 am
And yes, I can confirm that the coaching staff knew about the issue and know about other issues taking place that have yet to come to light. Sometimes when you don't see a guy play for a half, it's his punishment for being caught, but as long as it doesn't make the news, it won't really be more than that.
That’s really disappointing to me on an issue like this. I mean that is the response of other schools without the honor code. So do we really hold our players to a higher standard? Or do we just not have sex?
Um, er, Or commit to not have sex. I fear whatever "other" yet to be disclosed problems include some of that as well.

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by hawkwing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:16 am

lawngnome wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:02 am
hawkwing wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:57 am
And yes, I can confirm that the coaching staff knew about the issue and know about other issues taking place that have yet to come to light. Sometimes when you don't see a guy play for a half, it's his punishment for being caught, but as long as it doesn't make the news, it won't really be more than that.
That’s really disappointing to me on an issue like this. I mean that is the response of other schools without the honor code. So do we really hold our players to a higher standard? Or do we just not have sex?
Uhhh, I wouldn't make too many comments about BYU's current staff enforcing the no sex policy right now either...

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Re: Things may be getting worse... Tolutau cited

Post by frdbtr » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:24 am

Well, one thing is for sure. If the crap hits the fan with the honor code, Kalani is already gone. He could be winning and would be gone. The BOT made that clear with Crowton. It came out after he was let go that he would have gotten another year if it hadn't been for rape gate.

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