On Your Honor

[Isola]

I'm not entirely against the HC and it's enforcement. I do think it is long overdue for an update. Students came up with it in the 70s, nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I think the moral aspects of the HC should be no different than what's in the temple recommend questions. If you are worthy to attend the temple, the most sacred place on earth, you should be worthy to attend BYU.

Things like hair length, hair style, sleeve lengths, shorts length, tattoos, piercings, etc. are dumb and have no baring on a person's morality or righteousness.

The counterpoint goes - BYU students should be more like LDS missionaries, where grooming and dress are relevant and very much enforced. BYU students should be held to a higher standard because they are the outward representation of what BYU stands for.

I still can't believe that shorts aren't allowed at BYU-Idaho....

I like the missionaries comparison.

The HCO, like anything, could certainly use improvement, but I don't get the "on your honor" system. What is the goal? It seems like the only goal is to keep from reporting on others.

I'm not really sure why reporting on someone is so frowned upon, not just at BYU but in all American culture. You're a snitch or rat. Whatever dude. You did the crime, that is on you, not me.

Besides, I went to BYU so I didn't have to worry about roommates doing the sort of stuff prohibited in the honor code. I went on a band trip once in high school and my assigned roommate smoked pot in the room while I was gone. I didn't want to deal with that in college. So I went to BYU. And now you want to say I'm bad if I report my roommate for doing that at BYU?! Come on. You signed up to live the HC, and I signed up to have a roommate who lived the HC.

If you make a mistake, hey we all make mistakes. Talk to the Bishop and work things out. But if you don't want to live the HC and resent someone else for reporting you, get over it and go some where else and let someone who wants to live the HC take your place.

[YNot]

I haven't fully formed my opinion on this issue yet. But, I do know that the Honor Code enforcement culture at BYU suppresses the repentance process - doesn't help it.

I don't see how anyone could "know" that...

Anecdotal evidence, I guess...

If by "suppresses the repentance process" you mean that it is a tool to keep people from needing to engage in the repentance process in the first place - i.e. the wall at the top of the cliff rather than the ambulance at the bottom, I guess I could - in theory - agree with that, but I doubt that's what you mean.

Not a tool, but a deterrent. Fear to self-confess and properly work through the repentance process promptly and appropriately deal with issues because more than your standing before your Heavenly Father and the Church is at stake.

The other side is that those who don't really want to live the Honor Code at all will hide behind the "on your honor" system...without any honor.

[1967cougar]

I'm not entirely against the HC and it's enforcement. I do think it is long overdue for an update. Students came up with it in the 70s, nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I think the moral aspects of the HC should be no different than what's in the temple recommend questions. If you are worthy to attend the temple, the most sacred place on earth, you should be worthy to attend BYU.

Things like hair length, hair style, sleeve lengths, shorts length, tattoos, piercings, etc. are dumb and have no baring on a person's morality or righteousness.

The counterpoint goes - BYU students should be more like LDS missionaries, where grooming and dress are relevant and very much enforced. BYU students should be held to a higher standard because they are the outward representation of what BYU stands for.

I still can't believe that shorts aren't allowed at BYU-Idaho....

I like the missionaries comparison.

The HCO, like anything, could certainly use improvement, but I don't get the "on your honor" system. What is the goal? It seems like the only goal is to keep from reporting on others.

I'm not really sure why reporting on someone is so frowned upon, not just at BYU but in all American culture. You're a snitch or rat. Whatever dude. You did the crime, that is on you, not me.

Besides, I went to BYU so I didn't have to worry about roommates doing the sort of stuff prohibited in the honor code. I went on a band trip once in high school and my assigned roommate smoked pot in the room while I was gone. I didn't want to deal with that in college. So I went to BYU. And now you want to say I'm bad if I report my roommate for doing that at BYU?! Come on. You signed up to live the HC, and I signed up to have a roommate who lived the HC.

If you make a mistake, hey we all make mistakes. Talk to the Bishop and work things out. But if you don't want to live the HC and resent someone else for reporting you, get over it and go some where else and let someone who wants to live the HC take your place.

Isola, you are my new hero!
Thank you.

[Gunk]

I'm not entirely against the HC and it's enforcement. I do think it is long overdue for an update. Students came up with it in the 70s, nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I think the moral aspects of the HC should be no different than what's in the temple recommend questions. If you are worthy to attend the temple, the most sacred place on earth, you should be worthy to attend BYU.

Things like hair length, hair style, sleeve lengths, shorts length, tattoos, piercings, etc. are dumb and have no baring on a person's morality or righteousness.

The counterpoint goes - BYU students should be more like LDS missionaries, where grooming and dress are relevant and very much enforced. BYU students should be held to a higher standard because they are the outward representation of what BYU stands for.

I still can't believe that shorts aren't allowed at BYU-Idaho....

I like the missionaries comparison.

The HCO, like anything, could certainly use improvement, but I don't get the "on your honor" system. What is the goal? It seems like the only goal is to keep from reporting on others.

I'm not really sure why reporting on someone is so frowned upon, not just at BYU but in all American culture. You're a snitch or rat. Whatever dude. You did the crime, that is on you, not me.

Besides, I went to BYU so I didn't have to worry about roommates doing the sort of stuff prohibited in the honor code. I went on a band trip once in high school and my assigned roommate smoked pot in the room while I was gone. I didn't want to deal with that in college. So I went to BYU. And now you want to say I'm bad if I report my roommate for doing that at BYU?! Come on. You signed up to live the HC, and I signed up to have a roommate who lived the HC.

If you make a mistake, hey we all make mistakes. Talk to the Bishop and work things out. But if you don't want to live the HC and resent someone else for reporting you, get over it and go some where else and let someone who wants to live the HC take your place.

Students aren't missionaries. You're set apart as a missionary. It's your responsibility to represent the church.

Who are BYU students representing themselves to? Other BYU students? So, I don't really get forcing everyone to have similar haircuts.

I agree, things liking smoking pot, word of wisdom, chastity, etc. should be on the HC and enforced. But shaving? My body naturally produces hair. I can't help it. But for some reason too much hair is bad or unrepresentative of the church. Which is odd, because I know lots of people that have beards and are temple worthy members of the church.

IMO, there is too much focus on the appearance of "perfection" within the church. Silly rules like hair length and clothing length just reinforcing the appearance of righteousness. We should represent Christ by how we act, not how long the sleeves of my shirt are.

[BroncoBot]

I'm not entirely against the HC and it's enforcement. I do think it is long overdue for an update. Students came up with it in the 70s, nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I think the moral aspects of the HC should be no different than what's in the temple recommend questions. If you are worthy to attend the temple, the most sacred place on earth, you should be worthy to attend BYU.

Things like hair length, hair style, sleeve lengths, shorts length, tattoos, piercings, etc. are dumb and have no baring on a person's morality or righteousness.

The counterpoint goes - BYU students should be more like LDS missionaries, where grooming and dress are relevant and very much enforced. BYU students should be held to a higher standard because they are the outward representation of what BYU stands for.

I still can't believe that shorts aren't allowed at BYU-Idaho....

I like the missionaries comparison.

The HCO, like anything, could certainly use improvement, but I don't get the "on your honor" system. What is the goal? It seems like the only goal is to keep from reporting on others.

I'm not really sure why reporting on someone is so frowned upon, not just at BYU but in all American culture. You're a snitch or rat. Whatever dude. You did the crime, that is on you, not me.

Besides, I went to BYU so I didn't have to worry about roommates doing the sort of stuff prohibited in the honor code. I went on a band trip once in high school and my assigned roommate smoked pot in the room while I was gone. I didn't want to deal with that in college. So I went to BYU. And now you want to say I'm bad if I report my roommate for doing that at BYU?! Come on. You signed up to live the HC, and I signed up to have a roommate who lived the HC.

If you make a mistake, hey we all make mistakes. Talk to the Bishop and work things out. But if you don't want to live the HC and resent someone else for reporting you, get over it and go some where else and let someone who wants to live the HC take your place.

Students aren't missionaries. You're set apart as a missionary. It's your responsibility to represent the church.

Who are BYU students representing themselves to? Other BYU students? So, I don't really get forcing everyone to have similar haircuts.

I agree, things liking smoking pot, word of wisdom, chastity, etc. should be on the HC and enforced. But shaving? My body naturally produces hair. I can't help it. But for some reason too much hair is bad or unrepresentative of the church. Which is odd, because I know lots of people that have beards and are temple worthy members of the church.

IMO, there is too much focus on the appearance of "perfection" within the church. Silly rules like hair length and clothing length just reinforcing the appearance of righteousness. We should represent Christ by how we act, not how long the sleeves of my shirt are.

Yet, if you showed up to your temple recommend interview with a tank top on, you'd have a hard time passing I suppose?

[BroncoBot]

I've got no problem with BYU's honor code. we're splitting hairs here (no pun intended). I'm +/- the whole beard thing. Who cares. If that's a reason for consternation, go to the U or USU or your local/state college and enjoy your bearded life. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Currently if you want to go to BYU, learn to shave for a few years and don't worry about it. Life becomes a lot easier if you commit to something and then live it instead of kicking against the pricks.

Life becomes infinitely more complicated when you pick needless fights (as we see too often in the church).

[Jarhead]

I've got no problem with BYU's honor code. we're splitting hairs here (no pun intended). I'm +/- the whole beard thing. Who cares. If that's a reason for consternation, go to the U or USU or your local/state college and enjoy your bearded life. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Currently if you want to go to BYU, learn to shave for a few years and don't worry about it. Life becomes a lot easier if you commit to something and then live it instead of kicking against the pricks.

Life becomes infinitely more complicated when you pick needless fights (as we see too often in the church).

Nicely said.

[UCChris]

Life becomes infinitely more complicated when you pick needless fights make needless and arbitrary rules just to make yourself seem better than others. (As we see so much at BYU)

Fixed that for ya, friend.

[Jarhead]

Life becomes infinitely more complicated when you pick needless fights make needless and arbitrary rules just to make yourself seem better than others. (As we see so much at BYU)

Fixed that for ya, friend.

The honor code helps promote a really great student environment that I enjoyed and appreciated. It's those that kicked against the pricks that just made things miserable for themselves (with endless complaining about different rules). To be fair, I didn't have any dealings with reportings or the honor code office in general, so I didn't see any direct injustices that some talk about.

[BroncoBot]

Life becomes infinitely more complicated when you pick needless fights make needless and arbitrary rules just to make yourself seem better than others. (As we see so much at BYU)

Fixed that for ya, friend.

As has been pointed out by others in this thread, the honor code simplifies a lot of things for students. Don't have to worry about drugs, coeds being in your dorm room all night, etc that are part for the course through other college campuses. I'm fine with BYU setting itself apart. Don't agree with the HC? Don't go there. Doesn't make you less of a person before the Lord.

Do some ppl get off using it as a "better than you" attitude? Sure. But ppl do that with the gospel too. Doesn't make the gospel less valid.