On Your Honor

[ABYUFAN]

I haven't fully formed my opinion on this issue yet. But, I do know that the Honor Code enforcement culture at BYU suppresses the repentance process - doesn't help it.

I don't see how anyone could "know" that...

[Mars]

I like the honor code, in general. But then you have cases like the girl who was kicked out of BYU for being raped. Human justice always cuts both ways, but it's still better than anarchy.

[CrimsonCoug]

My SIL was hired by SVU to, among other things, help them think through the enforcement of their honor code. Her view and recommendation was that if a student signed a code of conduct and later violated that code, there should be consequences to that.
Her recommendation was rejected and the school now has a system more similar to ND--an honor code exists as a set of encouraged ideals and guideline, but there are no real consequences to flouting it. We live in the DC area and have SVU students come through our home from time to time. Those who are there, particularly the girls, tell us that there has been a spike in behaviors that make the young men undesirable as spouses: bad language, more drinking, permissive attitudes towards pornography, and having their dorms and living areas compromised by a roommate bringing home her boyfriend. They feel the moral quality of the student body has deteriorated, and they don't like it.

For all its warts, the BYU HC does serve a useful purpose. I'm in favor of trying new tweaks to mitigate the negatives from it, but there will always be tradeoffs with it, and despite those, the HC is still very much a net positive.

[CrimsonCoug]

I haven't fully formed my opinion on this issue yet. But, I do know that the Honor Code enforcement culture at BYU suppresses the repentance process - doesn't help it.

I don't see how anyone could "know" that...

I suppose it depends on your epistemology, or how you know what you know. From the point of view of empiricism, I agree that you'd be hard pressed to collect unbiased, representative data about this one way or the other. But from the epistemology of rationalism, it stands to reason that creating additional consequences for admitting to bad behavior would be expected to result in fewer people admitting bad behavior (as well as less bad behavior in general--see my SVU post above).

[Gunk]

I'm not entirely against the HC and it's enforcement. I do think it is long overdue for an update. Students came up with it in the 70s, nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I think the moral aspects of the HC should be no different than what's in the temple recommend questions. If you are worthy to attend the temple, the most sacred place on earth, you should be worthy to attend BYU.

Things like hair length, hair style, sleeve lengths, shorts length, tattoos, piercings, etc. are dumb and have no baring on a person's morality or righteousness.

[BroncoBot]

I like the honor code, in general. But then you have cases like the girl who was kicked out of BYU for being raped. Human justice always cuts both ways, but it's still better than anarchy.

HA HA> Not exactly how that went down Mars. If I knowingly took hallucinogenic drugs while at BYU, I'd have expected to be kicked out, no matter what happened afterwards. It was definitely a terrible incident.

[Mars]

I like the honor code, in general. But then you have cases like the girl who was kicked out of BYU for being raped. Human justice always cuts both ways, but it's still better than anarchy.

HA HA> Not exactly how that went down Mars. If I knowingly took hallucinogenic drugs while at BYU, I'd have expected to be kicked out, no matter what happened afterwards. It was definitely a terrible incident.

You seem to be referring to a different incident than I am. My example didn't make the news, luckily for BYU.

[YNot]

I'm not entirely against the HC and it's enforcement. I do think it is long overdue for an update. Students came up with it in the 70s, nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I think the moral aspects of the HC should be no different than what's in the temple recommend questions. If you are worthy to attend the temple, the most sacred place on earth, you should be worthy to attend BYU.

Things like hair length, hair style, sleeve lengths, shorts length, tattoos, piercings, etc. are dumb and have no baring on a person's morality or righteousness.

The counterpoint goes - BYU students should be more like LDS missionaries, where grooming and dress are relevant and very much enforced. BYU students should be held to a higher standard because they are the outward representation of what BYU stands for.

I still can't believe that shorts aren't allowed at BYU-Idaho....

[YNot]

I haven't fully formed my opinion on this issue yet. But, I do know that the Honor Code enforcement culture at BYU suppresses the repentance process - doesn't help it.

I don't see how anyone could "know" that...

Anecdotal evidence, I guess...

[ABYUFAN]

I haven't fully formed my opinion on this issue yet. But, I do know that the Honor Code enforcement culture at BYU suppresses the repentance process - doesn't help it.

I don't see how anyone could "know" that...

Anecdotal evidence, I guess...

If by "suppresses the repentance process" you mean that it is a tool to keep people from needing to engage in the repentance process in the first place - i.e. the wall at the top of the cliff rather than the ambulance at the bottom, I guess I could - in theory - agree with that, but I doubt that's what you mean.