Zadock Dinkleman decommits

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ABYUFAN
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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by ABYUFAN » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 am

frdbtr wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:06 am
ABYUFAN wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:54 am
Gunk wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:06 am
If the ship isn't righted next year, Tom and Kalani need to go.
I see many people with this sentiment, but I'm not sure I can tell where Tom has done something worthy of firing... was he supposed to NOT hire Sitake? Was he supposed to step in the middle of this year's dumpster fire and meddle in a coaching staff in the middle of the season? I don't get the Holmoe hate (other than it being a sign that we as a fan base are super duper mad and are ready to burn every suspected witch - real or not.)
2 years ago when Bronco left, there was only one guy who had a shot at becoming the HC even thought multiple candidates expressed interest. 2 candidates that IMO were as qualified and had shown better results that Sitake commented that BYU had their sights set on someone else as to why they weren't given a shot. This is why I want at least a serious review of Tom Holmoe's Job if we don't make a bowl game next year. I hate buddy hires. BYU should hire the best guy for the job regardless of whether this person was a BYU player or whatever in the past. IMO from what I have read, that was not the case 2 years ago.
So because Tom Holmoe didn't hire the guy that wanted to bring the wishbone to BYU he should be fired? That's so crazy to me

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by ABYUFAN » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:01 am

Gunk wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:36 pm
ABYUFAN wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:54 am
Gunk wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:06 am
If the ship isn't righted next year, Tom and Kalani need to go.
I see many people with this sentiment, but I'm not sure I can tell where Tom has done something worthy of firing... was he supposed to NOT hire Sitake? Was he supposed to step in the middle of this year's dumpster fire and meddle in a coaching staff in the middle of the season? I don't get the Holmoe hate (other than it being a sign that we as a fan base are super duper mad and are ready to burn every suspected witch - real or not.)
If a VP at a company starts hurting the performance of a product line it's on the CEO to fix it. You're right, BYU football was a dumpster fire, one that Holmoe started.

Holmoe hired Kalani. Holmoe hired Detmer. Holmoe allowed this entire staff to be hired and when the dumpster fire raged Holmoe did nothing. I don't see how you could not blame Holmoe.
Sitake's first year was above expectations (clearly due to personnel) his second year was also personnel driven. Was Holmoe supposed to know before the season started that it would be a train wreck and fire Detmer? Who could he have brought in then? Actually if you fire Detmer before the offense implode THEN you'd be run out of town by angry mobs with torches and pitchforks... so should he have not hired Detmer? Same result. Again Every Holmoe decision that I've seen is justifiable. He'll be justified if he fires Sitake next year too. And for the record, I wasn't a Sitake fan when he was hired - I've never liked the hire, but I see why it was done and don't see it as a firable offense for the AD. I've not seen any good explanation as to why he needs to go except that we're mad as hell and firing one person isn't enough for us.

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by hawkwing » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:10 am

ABYUFAN wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:01 am
Gunk wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:36 pm
ABYUFAN wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:54 am
Gunk wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:06 am
If the ship isn't righted next year, Tom and Kalani need to go.
I see many people with this sentiment, but I'm not sure I can tell where Tom has done something worthy of firing... was he supposed to NOT hire Sitake? Was he supposed to step in the middle of this year's dumpster fire and meddle in a coaching staff in the middle of the season? I don't get the Holmoe hate (other than it being a sign that we as a fan base are super duper mad and are ready to burn every suspected witch - real or not.)
If a VP at a company starts hurting the performance of a product line it's on the CEO to fix it. You're right, BYU football was a dumpster fire, one that Holmoe started.

Holmoe hired Kalani. Holmoe hired Detmer. Holmoe allowed this entire staff to be hired and when the dumpster fire raged Holmoe did nothing. I don't see how you could not blame Holmoe.
Sitake's first year was above expectations (clearly due to personnel) his second year was also personnel driven. Was Holmoe supposed to know before the season started that it would be a train wreck and fire Detmer? Who could he have brought in then? Actually if you fire Detmer before the offense implode THEN you'd be run out of town by angry mobs with torches and pitchforks... so should he have not hired Detmer? Same result. Again Every Holmoe decision that I've seen is justifiable. He'll be justified if he fires Sitake next year too. And for the record, I wasn't a Sitake fan when he was hired - I've never liked the hire, but I see why it was done and don't see it as a firable offense for the AD. I've not seen any good explanation as to why he needs to go except that we're mad as hell and firing one person isn't enough for us.
The only change or comment I'd make on your statement here is that Sitake's first year hit expectations exactly. I don't think it was above expectations at all.

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by CrimsonCoug » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:44 am

I agree. I don't think firing Holmoe would solve anything and instead would prolong the recovery.
That said, there are three other arguments for firing Holmoe not mentioned above. I think only one holds water.
Argument 1. Holmoe is in charge of the scheduling and that hurt us. I disagree with this one--in the end our average SOS was mediocre but with a huge standard deviation. We got shut out of almost the entire second half by the very worst defense in the country (ECU). We lost at home to UMASS. Scheduling was not a major factor in this season's meltdown.

Argument 2. Holmoe was in charge of the decision to take BYU independent and then get us into a P5 conference; Independence isn't working and we're not in a P5 conference. I disagree here, too. Given what we knew at the time with TCU and Utah jumping ship, I admire Holmoe's courage to take BYU independent. It was a risk that hasn't paid off--at least not yet and not fully, but it was the right decision at the time. As for the B12, the reason that fell apart was due to social shifts in the LGBT space well beyond Holmoe's control. He had positioned us to join and everything was headed that direction until the lower tier schools in that conference caused a national stink, poisoning the well by making it politically untenable to bring in BYU. Without BYU, expansion didn't make sense.

Argument 3. Holmoe cowed to pressure to let Mendenhall go. To the degree that this is true, I agree that Holmoe should absolutely take some blame for this season. An AD has to be able to stand up to the donors. You don't let a long-term winning coach walk out the door, and certainly not without a clear succession plan. Yeah, Mendenhall was quirky and rubbed some the wrong way, but he ran a clean, respectable program and he won. Donors (and apparently Holmoe) mistook BYU's ceiling for Mendenhall's ceiling, forgetting that Edwards won the NC in a completely different, far more equitable era where HC issues could be kept out of the public eye. I have a hard time imagining Edwards at his prime doing any better than Mendenhall did in today's world. Letting Mendenhall walk was huge mistake.

That said, I don't think getting a new AD would fix the mess we're in now. We can't get Mendenhall back. It would be a mistake to fire Holmoe out of retribution or spite.
The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited to the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were and ask, "Why Not?" -JFK & SWK

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by hawkwing » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:08 pm

Great post Crimson, I agree with what you said.

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by frdbtr » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:31 pm

ABYUFAN wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 am
frdbtr wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:06 am
ABYUFAN wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:54 am
Gunk wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:06 am
If the ship isn't righted next year, Tom and Kalani need to go.
I see many people with this sentiment, but I'm not sure I can tell where Tom has done something worthy of firing... was he supposed to NOT hire Sitake? Was he supposed to step in the middle of this year's dumpster fire and meddle in a coaching staff in the middle of the season? I don't get the Holmoe hate (other than it being a sign that we as a fan base are super duper mad and are ready to burn every suspected witch - real or not.)
2 years ago when Bronco left, there was only one guy who had a shot at becoming the HC even thought multiple candidates expressed interest. 2 candidates that IMO were as qualified and had shown better results that Sitake commented that BYU had their sights set on someone else as to why they weren't given a shot. This is why I want at least a serious review of Tom Holmoe's Job if we don't make a bowl game next year. I hate buddy hires. BYU should hire the best guy for the job regardless of whether this person was a BYU player or whatever in the past. IMO from what I have read, that was not the case 2 years ago.
So because Tom Holmoe didn't hire the guy that wanted to bring the wishbone to BYU he should be fired? That's so crazy to me
If we were winning 9-10 games per year with the wishbone, then I would take that in a second over this dumpster fire. Having said that, my favorite candidate was Lance Anderson from Stanford who runs one of the top defenses in the country with major recruiting restrictions and was not considered because, as he put it, BYU had it's sights set on a higher profile guy.

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by Jarhead » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm

I agree with Crimson as well. The only area in which Holmoe may be writing his ticket out of town for me is in his handling of Sitake. If it the rumors swirling around the program prove to be true and Holmoe does nothing about it, he deserves to go.

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Re: Zadock Dinkleman decommits

Post by Gunk » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:06 pm

Jarhead wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm
I agree with Crimson as well. The only area in which Holmoe may be writing his ticket out of town for me is in his handling of Sitake. If it the rumors swirling around the program prove to be true and Holmoe does nothing about it, he deserves to go.
Agree.

Independence, botched B12 invite, and schedule are not things Holmoe should be fired for.

His failure to properly handle Sitake, however are. That's on Holmoe.
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