OT: Jake Heaps loses starting job to Cozart

[Cougarbib]

Bib, you are so one track--and always have been-- that you are arguing the very thing that few if any are currently. Any pushback in this thread was not to "blame others" it was to shift away from the all or nothing, horrible-izing and rewriting history. It wasn't all bad. And that out intent to point out a few good things.

A few good things like the locker room conspiracy?

Jake needs no apologists. Like Riley Nelson when healthy, he looked great vs bad teams, OK, vs mediocre teams, and not so good vs good teams. He could not beat USU. So some slight differentiation.

He is a redshirt senior now. I believe he will get a shot due to injury or poor performance to or by Cozart. I hope he steps up his game and plays like it matters more than anything to him. And whatever the outcome, let him own his own results.

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[jonnylingo]

Heaps was positioned to be one of the greats. He had a very strong finish to his freshman year (as stated above, 5-1 record, great TD:INT ratio, pretty good PER - 152) and everyone had no reason to believe his career wouldn't have continued.

But none of us knew how divided the staff was - and it turns out his biggest supporter on the staff left.

None of knew that Heaps was basically going to take the summer off and not workout with the team, preferring instead to workout on his own, with his own trainer.

None of us knew how divided the team was. None of us knew that Heaps not being around was going to open the door for petty politicking by teammates who were working out with the team.

None of us knew how awful the coaching would turn out to be.

A comedy of errors and a perfect storm of incompetence by everyone involved led to his demise. He was mismanaged by his handlers, his coaches, his own decisions and his own performance on the field when it mattered most.

It's not revisionist to say he stunk in 2011 and deserved to lose his job. His awful play and inability to bring the team together over the summer erased all the good will he had earned at the end of that good stretch of play that was never to be repeated.

i endorse this post

[Stirfry]

Broken Record

Go look who that 5-1 finish was against.

.......

Vs mediocre and bad teams, Heaps was fine. Vs good teams, he was not. I think the cracked ribs vs Utah took a huge toll.

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I'm glad we agree. It was against FBS competition and he was fine.

[SpiffCoug]

Heaps was very consistent - consistently poor.

vs Poor teams (4 or fewer wins) 134.53 PER, 157 of 260 (.604) 1,833 yards 16 TDs 7 INTs 8-1 record. Five PER above 135, four below 120).

vs Average teams (5-7 wins) 107.30 PER, 114 of 204 (.559) 1,132 yards 6 TDs 5 INTs 3-3 record. One PER above 135 (none others above 110).

vs Good teams (9+ wins) 93.81 PER, 90 of 165 (.545) 788 yards, 2 TDs 4 INTs, 1-4 record. No PER higher than 114.

What hurt Heaps against all competition is he wasn't a play maker. He had an extremely low TD%. The percent of his passes that led to scores was a very low 3.8%. Some comparative numbers: Nelson 6.3%, Marc Wilson 6.5%, Feterik 5.3%, Hill 4.5%, Beck 5.6%, Nielsen 7.8%, Hancock 5.9%, Berry 3.3% Detmer 7.9%. Doman 6.9%.

During that 5-1 stretch it was 8.1%. Which means in the rest of his career he was at 2.2%. This again shows that there was reason to hope he was going to be great. That 8.1% is a great number. He showed he could get it done.

Then that perfect storm of his own choices and outside influences converged to completely derail his career and he simply didn't have the leadership skills or talent to overcome those challenges with success on the field.

[Cougarbib]

Heaps was very consistent - consistently poor.

vs Poor teams (4 or fewer wins) 134.53 PER, 157 of 260 (.604) 1,833 yards 16 TDs 7 INTs 8-1 record. Five PER above 135, four below 120).

vs Average teams (5-7 wins) 107.30 PER, 114 of 204 (.559) 1,132 yards 6 TDs 5 INTs 3-3 record. One PER above 135 (none others above 110).

vs Good teams (9+ wins) 93.81 PER, 90 of 165 (.545) 788 yards, 2 TDs 4 INTs, 1-4 record. No PER higher than 114.

What hurt Heaps against all competition is he wasn't a play maker. He had an extremely low TD%. The percent of his passes that led to scores was a very low 3.8%. Some comparative numbers: Nelson 6.3%, Marc Wilson 6.5%, Feterik 5.3%, Hill 4.5%, Beck 5.6%, Nielsen 7.8%, Hancock 5.9%, Berry 3.3% Detmer 7.9%. Doman 6.9%.

During that 5-1 stretch it was 8.1%. Which means in the rest of his career he was at 2.2%. This again shows that there was reason to hope he was going to be great. That 8.1% is a great number. He showed he could get it done.

Then that perfect storm of his own choices and outside influences converged to completely derail his career and he simply didn't have the leadership skills or talent to overcome those challenges with success on the field.

I was about to totally agree with this post until you got to the perfect storm. There was no perfect storm. As you posted with data - real data - no revisionist anything - no blinders on your eyes - he started 2010 vs decent to good teams like UW, AFA, Florida State, etc. Stunk. Stunk so bad I was calling for a "look see" to see if Lark was decent. Then the 5-1 stretch to end the season. 1 good team. Utah. Loss. 5 bad teams. 5 wins. The variation in results in 2010 was SOS. Same coaches. Same locker room. Same politics.

If there was any perfect storm it was this. 2011 started out vs some pretty good defenses including Ute in week 3 and USU. It was a new staff to an extent, but as Jake proved late in the year, even in 2011, he was able to eat up on cupcakes irrespective of coaches, locker room, summer practice skips, early marriage, parents divorce, etc. That was still in play, but iirc, he was able to whip up a bad team or two when Nelson went down at one point.

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[Cougs_Rule]

Bib, you are so one track--and always have been-- that you are arguing the very thing that few if any are currently. Any pushback in this thread was not to "blame others" it was to shift away from the all or nothing, horrible-izing and rewriting history. It wasn't all bad. And that out intent to point out a few good things.

A few good things like the locker room conspiracy?


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Are you suggesting that the locker room conspiracy was Heaps' fault . Because it sure seems like you are, In which case you just proved your myopic, one track mind.
Even as supportive of Heaps as I was in past; even as accurate as I was about the coaching divide and player division/mutiny as I was; I never believed its was all Riley's fault--though he was the lead instigator and upper, RM classman, clearly with the upper hand politically (just not in performance in practice) and Heaps was a foolish, arrogant freshman if he thought the locker room would be handed over to him--BIG disputable IF. Clearly Chambers had an opinion!!
But regardless, you keep bringing up old, stale, half truths that obfuscate and discredit your point and the point all together that with all of Heaps bads, there were indisputable, statistically supported goods. Even the budding super star Hill has had a hard time leading this O to the end zone. This whole O has had a hard time consistently getting into the end zone since Beck and Hall.

[SpiffCoug]

2010 wasn't the same as the post-2010 off-season and 2011. A lot changed. The politics certainly changed. The coaching changed. Jake's approach changed. And Jake didn't eat up all the bad teamhe played. I'll post the stats later.

I'll stand by my perfect storm statement. But it should not be interpreted as meaning Jake is or was absolved of responsibility for what happened.the only changes the biggest changes, in my opinion, were not schedule related.

[SpiffCoug]

Jake vs "bad" teams later in the year in 2011.

Vs Idaho St (when he came for mop up duty) 8 of 10 for 67 yds 0 TD 1 INT 116.28 PER (Idaho St's DPER was 108.6)

Vs Idaho (when he came in for an injured Nelson) 15 of 20 for 185 2 TDs 1 INT 175.70 PER (very good PER, and Idaho's DPER was 144.2).

vs New Mexioc St 21 of 36 for 238 4 TDs 1 INT 144.98 PER. Pretty good PER. (NMSU DPER was 134.8 ).

[Cougarbib]

Jake vs "bad" teams later in the year in 2011.

Vs Idaho St (when he came for mop up duty) 8 of 10 for 67 yds 0 TD 1 INT 116.28 PER (Idaho St's DPER was 108.6)

Vs Idaho (when he came in for an injured Nelson) 15 of 20 for 185 2 TDs 1 INT 175.70 PER (very good PER, and Idaho's DPER was 144.2).

vs New Mexioc St 21 of 36 for 238 4 TDs 1 INT 144.98 PER. Pretty good PER. (NMSU DPER was 134.8 ).

now add the data for the early games and you will notice that while he beat the DPer in all of these games, that was not consistently the case vs the good teams that came early.

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[Cougarbib]

Bib, you are so one track--and always have been-- that you are arguing the very thing that few if any are currently. Any pushback in this thread was not to "blame others" it was to shift away from the all or nothing, horrible-izing and rewriting history. It wasn't all bad. And that out intent to point out a few good things.

A few good things like the locker room conspiracy?


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Are you suggesting that the locker room conspiracy was Heaps' fault . Because it sure seems like you are, In which case you just proved your myopic, one track mind.
Even as supportive of Heaps as I was in past; even as accurate as I was about the coaching divide and player division/mutiny as I was; I never believed its was all Riley's fault--though he was the lead instigator and upper, RM classman, clearly with the upper hand politically (just not in performance in practice) and Heaps was a foolish, arrogant freshman if he thought the locker room would be handed over to him--BIG disputable IF. Clearly Chambers had an opinion!!
But regardless, you keep bringing up old, stale, half truths that obfuscate and discredit your point and the point all together that with all of Heaps bads, there were indisputable, statistically supported goods. Even the budding super star Hill has had a hard time leading this O to the end zone. This whole O has had a hard time consistently getting into the end zone since Beck and Hall.

No. I a not saying Jake caused it. Anticipating your next question, no, I am not saying there were not divides in the locker room and the coaching staff. I am saying that these divisions were far from the biggest factor in his performance on the field. The biggest factor was an obvious fear of contact that was most evident vs teams that had the athletes to bring it and bring it fast and hard. BYU played many teams where the OL was able to slow the pass rush. They played many others where athletes consistently got to the QB - kind of like the BYU D does to many of our opponents.

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