CougarCorner

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-22T09:39:10-06:00

Even if "well regulated" trips you up, remember that, at the time the Constitution was written, that had absolutely nothing to do with government regulation as we know it.

Just to clarify a bit -- as I read the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms is not to be infringed so that we can have well regulated militias. The right to bear arms is what makes the well regulated militia a possibility. Stating that the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed" indicates to me that they were not creating a new or novel right--they were preserving an existing right as it existed at the time.

I do not read the Second Amendment to limit the right to bear arms to those involved in a well regulated militia. I think that twists the text of the Amendment beyond reasonable interpretation.

Statistics: Posted by snoscythe — Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:39 am

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-22T08:49:53-06:00

That was when the Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred, at the cost of 120 civilian lives. The darkest shame in LDS history.

At the end of the "War", the same outcome happened anyway, with Brigham Young being stripped of public office.

Again, do you have a point, or are you just reciting common history without reason?

What is your point?

Statistics: Posted by Ddawg — Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-22T01:29:42-06:00

That was when the Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred, at the cost of 120 civilian lives. The darkest shame in LDS history.

At the end of the "War", the same outcome happened anyway, with Brigham Young being stripped of public office.

Again, do you have a point, or are you just reciting common history without reason?

Statistics: Posted by Mars — Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 am

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-22T00:38:58-06:00

Lol

You really don't know do you? Stunning. After the Saints migrated to Utah, Pres. Buchanan sent the U.S. Army to the Utah Territory to quell the so-called Mormon Rebellion. Became known at the Utah War. Pres. Buchanan sent General Albert Sydney Johnston wit 2,500 troops to crush the Mormon Rebellion.

Guess what? Brigham Young directed Gen. Daniel Wells (commander of the Nauvoo Legion, and member of LDS First Presidency) to engage in a war of delay and destruction of property and supplies, annoy, delay, stampede animals, burn supply trains, blockade the road, keep them from sleeping - but avoid bloodshed and loss of life. The conflict lasted 14 months (1857-1858).

Flash - it was the Nauvoo Legion that engaged in the guerrilla war of delay, annoy, and deny supplies to Johnston's army that ultimately brought about a favorable solution to a potentially ugly conflict.

Statistics: Posted by Ddawg — Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:38 am

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-22T00:19:30-06:00

Lol

Statistics: Posted by Mars — Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:19 am

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-21T23:33:33-06:00

Okay...
And?

It does not matter that you lack understanding. You did not know or understand why the Nauvoo Legion was created. You did not know or understand the Nauvoo Legion continued to exist after their charter was cancelled. Never mind.

Statistics: Posted by Ddawg — Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:33 pm

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-21T23:13:20-06:00

Okay...
And?

Statistics: Posted by Mars — Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-21T22:58:07-06:00

The Nauvoo Legion was disbanded by the state. It never protected the Saints from mobs, nor did it protect brother Joseph. I'm not sure why it was even brought up.

You missed the point. The purpose for WHY the Nauvoo Legion was created. To protect the Saints against the hostile mob. It was created because of what the Saints experienced by mob violence in Missouri (Haun's Mill massacre, etc.). The charter was withdrawn by the state of Illinois. The Nauvoo Legion continued to exist and went to Utah with the Saints. It was actually disbanded in Utah in 1887 by the Edmunds-Tucker act and replaced by the Utah National Guard in 1894.

Statistics: Posted by Ddawg — Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 pm

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-21T22:51:24-06:00

The Nauvoo Legion was disbanded by the state. It never protected the Saints from mobs, nor did it protect brother Joseph. I'm not sure why it was even brought up.

Statistics: Posted by Mars — Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:51 pm

Re: The Constitution and the LDS Faith

2018-02-21T20:54:10-06:00

24 years after the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ began, Joseph Smith was sitting in a jail in Carthage, Illinois with his brother Hyrum, John Taylor, and Willard Richards. It was June of 1844. The Smith brothers were in jail to face charges for ordering the destruction of a local newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor, that had been critical of Joseph. A mob of approx. 150-200 militia surrounded Carthage Jail.

On June 27, Cyrus Wheelock visited the jail and smuggled a six shooter (called a pepper-box, not a traditional western six shooter) into Joseph. During the visit, Wheelock slipped the 6 shooter into Joseph's pocket. Joseph already had a single shot pistol that had been smuggled in and given to him by John S. Fullmer. Joseph gave the single shot pistol to Hyrum, and kept the pepperbox six shooter.

When the mob attack began, Hyrum was shot through the door into the left side of his face. He never used his pistol and fell, exclaiming "I am a dead man." Hyrum was not shot several more times while laying on the floor from rifles firing thru the doorway. One lead shot ball grazed Hyrum's chest, entered his throat, and entered his head. Seeing Hyrum killed, Joseph lept to the door and fired his pepperbox pistol into the group of men trying to force their way through the doorway and into the room. He fired 6 times, but the pistol only fired 3x, the rest were misfires. John Taylor stood by the side of the door and used his walking stick to strike muskets that were poking thru the door and firing at the 4 men inside. Three of the mob attackers were wounded by Joseph's shots, with no one dying from their wounds.

In June 1994, Thomas S. Monson wrote in the Ensign, “the Prophet Joseph, with his pistol in hand, was attempting to defend his life and that of his brethren.”

At this point Joseph chose to go to the window in an effort to draw the fire from John Taylor and Willard Richards. Joseph left from the window and was shot to death. Both Joseph and Hyrum were each shot 4 times.

I have read that either 5 or 9 men were indicted for the murders of Joseph and Hyrum. No one was convicted. I cannot confirm which number is correct. However, the fact that no on was convicted is correct.

If you visit the Church History Museum near Temple Square, you will find a glass case that has both Joseph's pepper-box and Hyrum's single shot pistol, and John Taylor's walking stick.

Statistics: Posted by Ddawg — Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:54 pm