Confused. Dense. Ignorant. Yes, the insults seem to be going both ways.

Jv is right though. Citizens commit crimes. The question is at what rate, compared to illegals, and compared to legal aliens as well.

Illegals cost the government money, but they also fill valuable jobs. The same as citizens. Again, the question is how dramatic are those trade-offs, and how do they compare?

Knock it off Dawg, no one enjoys condescension.

Maybe politics itself should be put on a time-out here.

Don't worry about it. Some people are just too dense to realize what their arguments really mean. We can always try it again. See:

Question #1: Do any illegal aliens commit crime in the United States? Yes or No.

Yes. So does your Grandma. Kick her out the next time she breaks the speed limit or forgets to turn on her blinker while changing lanes and then your argument holds water.

Knock it off Dawg, no one enjoys condescension.

Maybe politics itself should be put on a time-out here.

We have a lot of first-year scouts in our troop this year, so last weekend we did a "test" winter camp before we do the Klondike next month. This was done in a field in town (less than 5 minutes from our homes) with wall tents and wood stoves. The Klondike will be in the mountains with no cell coverage in unheated dome tents. Nevertheless, I had a scout who was warm all night, but when it came time to get out of his sleeping bag didn't want to put on his "cold" pants and didn't want to take off his boots to replace his athletic socks with wool socks. He had snow pants that he refused to put on. So he wandered around the campsite in longjohns and wet cotton socks for an hour, refusing to make the simple changes to make himself warm "put on your wool socks", "put on your snow pants". He eventually called his mom to come pick him up right when it was time to start breaking camp.

Unfortunately, I can't say this is an isolated incident or even limited to this one kid, and this is coming from a very blue-collar community where hard work and toughness are supposed to be emphasized. It's not as bad as it has been in past, more affluent wards, but it just makes it clear that parents are raising a nation of quitters without work ethic.

Knock it off Dawg, no one enjoys condescension.

Maybe politics itself should be put on a time-out here.

But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that?

Well everyone adds to crime rates. Why should we tolerate any of that? We could make America pristine again. Kick everyone out.

That is not true. I understand your tongue in cheek, sarcastic statement. It's just not true.

Yes, it is true. With all the federal, state, county, and city laws everyone is a criminal.

I don't buy that migrants are any more prone to violent crime than others in their economic situation. You're overstating your case there, notwithstaning your anecdotal evidence.

I'm not overstating anything. I'm telling you real world experiences. It happens repeatedly every week. Regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not. And, I have never said ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. Not even close. But some certainly are. Also, to say that poor people, in poor economic situations become criminals is a cop out - an excuse. It's not true. Lots of poor people do not act criminally. Though some do. It's case by case - person by person.

Yet you don't give any evidence that immigrants are more prone to criminal activity adjusted to economic status. You want it both ways - migrants are prone to criminal activity, but you have to take it case by case. Which is it?