UVU keeps losing, including to teams we beat. It was a stupid fluke.

I can't remember the last time that I honestly felt the our staff outcoached and won a game we should not have won. Maybe Gonzaga on the road last year (or was it two years running now). Outside of that I just don't see Rose doing much with what he has in the sense of preparing them for the game at hand and developing them over the long haul toward the NBA. We sure do fill up the European and other foreign leagues though...

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?

It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.

Isn't it head to head Rose won one (last year 85-54) and lost one (this year)... and Pope has less wins now than Rose had in his first season as BYU's head coach... and Rose took over a program that had won only 9 games the season before. Honestly, there is an issue of the recency effect here...but for heaven sakes look at the guy's bio http://byucougars.com/staff/m-basketball/dave-rose. I don't see how this is even a discussion.

It's a discussion because we lost to UVU. Something that should never ever happen. It's also a discussion because Pope did it with a bunch of BYU castaways. Meanwhile, our "all-star" team can barely beat Weber State.

I've been one of Rose's biggest defenders. He's accomplished a lot and I honestly think he was a better coach 5 years ago than he is today. The results certainly seem to indicate such as well. Maybe it's because we don't have Rice? Maybe it's because we're in a more guard heavy conference and our guards don't stack up? I don't know. I do know, the talent has gone up, but the results have gone down. That's coaching.

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?

It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.

Isn't it head to head Rose won one (last year 85-54) and lost one (this year)... and Pope has less wins now than Rose had in his first season as BYU's head coach... and Rose took over a program that had won only 9 games the season before. Honestly, there is an issue of the recency effect here...but for heaven sakes look at the guy's bio http://byucougars.com/staff/m-basketball/dave-rose. I don't see how this is even a discussion.

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?

It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.